Wouldn't nearly subject it as a freeday solely because it's a created game w an end goal & an objective i.e last T found gets LR and/or vice versa (not the only way HnS can be played but the most known way of playing)

Just want to add my intake, a lot of it falls off Xan's post so 1st of all, what are the ways of playing HnS? Really, there are only two ways.

CT's must seek T's or T's must seek CT's

CT's must seek T's
Now there's a lot of things you need to consider. First being, when the CT finds the T are they KOS(?) or are they not. Because what's more than likely going to go through the T's head is that "no CT's on guard, full & complete access to armory, they're going to be busy searching for other T's, & well regardless, I'm going to die if they find me". Which in most cases is when & why T's rebel on a day like this; although, there are times when MOST the T's actually want to play the game & follow through w hiding around the map. Assuming the prize is for LR (last T found gets LR) & if found they are KOS, are they are allowed to defend themselves? But if they defend (kill the CT who finds them) are they classified as a rebeller? So, now assuming that maybe the warden says they aren't KOS when found, then what's the end goal? To just play a game of HnS? Which tbh would probably be the most succesful way of playing HnS, it'd more than likely lessen the chance of rebellers. Now lastly, would hiding in secrets be KOS on T's as well? Based off the understandings of the rules, classifying the day as neither a war day or free day, it would be KOS, unless said otherwise by the warden but if they're found they'll (normally) be considered KOS anyways unless stated not to be KOS when found. And yes, that was a jumble of words but should be taken into account.

T's must seek CT's
Now, more things to consider, are the CT's KOS when found? Probably yes, but if not, and a T were to kill a CT in which was hiding assuming they are now considered a rebel how do you take that matter into hands? Are CT's allowed to defend themselves when found? Just gonna outright say no, they aren't, because won't go more into detail but it'd be against the rules for various reasons . Are they allowed in armory and/or secrets? Once again, no, for various reasons stated by the rules. But what's the end goal for CT's?

Now taking all of that into hands, what do you think about having HnS? For CT's seeking T's or vice versa?

From my take, these are and/or should be definites:
- Must be a prize, at least for T's behalf (HnS should & is considered to be a death game, & from my take ALL death games should have a prize)
- T neither CT can defend themselves when found; if do, T is KOS, while the CT is simply not playing their role
- Secrets & armory are considered KOS for both CT's & T's once game has started (this is more of a maybe, could work if done right)
- When found, for both parties, you are to be killed until a last surviving player is alive on whichever side is being found

Probably could have found a better way to differentiate the two sides, very jumbled together, but as for now just going to leave that as said.

Agreed well said.

These rules were changed and reworded multiple time over, so it can remove all or most of the confusions it use to cause. These rule specifically remove all gaps in the rules and basically fine tune what can be done, So the rule eliminate as many possible twists, to a specific rule, as possible.

I remember the amount of complaints needed to be handled on people reporting overs for the different interpretations each person had on the rule and what was allowed to happen on Hide and Seek days. So for a while now admins and staff+ work together to remove as much vagueness in rules as possible.

In simple words: Hide and Seek doen't work so both parties benefits and is way to similar to wardays, so it's easier to remove it and have a warday instead.

If you use other maps than Razor as a measuring stick, you get a very different perspective on this issue. You could very easily do a brilliant Hide and Seek day on Mario Castle by having the CT's stay in the cell area, maybe even the first cell, watching the ladder that leads to armory. Summer, Carceris and Canyondam are three more maps that I think would work well for a Hide and Seek day. Electric Razor isn't practical I agree, the same way we don't do Duck Hunt on greybrick.


Not to be critical, but did it never cross the minds of the admins and Staff+ at the time that if they wanted this to be crystal clear then they should have just written a rule directly prohibiting Hide and Seek days?

Also, I don't wanna be the resident Martyr but I've waited six pages for somebody else to bring it up... you are asking admins to be accountable for a rule that doesn't officially exist (yet), that they've had no say in and no chance to vote on. Staff+ have made their mind up in the interim and I am confident they are making that decision with our best interests in mind but it feels to me like you are betraying the processes that you have put in place. There's nothing in the 77 rules at the moment that directly prohibits Hide and Seek days and we correctly don't do this on a he said, she said basis.

If I was in your position I'd be inclined to ask my admins to only enforce rules that existed in the !rules plugin because it is those that players agree to when they connect to the server, not a rule that the Staff+ have put into place on a forum thread.

No hide and seek days was brought up at the last admin meeting...... it falls under one of the other rules. If we made a rule for every single thing so people couldnt say exactly what you're saying we'd have thousands.

Which one?


I appreciate that Bri, and I agree with you that we have to be critical of the rules that we are adding and enforcing.

I mean I would assume the one that Yiggles keeps quoting? But then again like he said thats based on the view point that HnS is essentially a warday.



And then again we've had two staff say its not allowed so if people question it we can always send them back to this post. When it comes directly down to it...if an admin tells you not to do it. Dont. Unless its something completely unreasonable the admins usually know what they're talking about and arent trying to do anything harmful to the game play or population.

Yes it did. Well I remember this was back when we had couple of really active admins like Matt before he was staff+ and we asked them in an admin meeting to name some events that really throws the server in chaos, So we started to word the rules in such a way that it eliminates all twist of a rule to allow only the thing that keeps gameplay going. Obviously I don't know how it works now with the rules since I am just coming back and getting a feel for thing again.

You are a 100% correct, there is no specific rule prohibiting Hide and Seek. Of course having a rule to say what can or can't be done will lead to so many rules it will be ridiculous(even now there are to many imo). However it does conflict with some rules in a way depending on the perspective you take. I think admins should just explain to people calling a hide and Seek, why it isn't allowed and then that is that.

I think Hide and Seek is or could be really fun and work well on some maps, so I agree with you on that Moot.

Wow, I never expected this post to exceed the replies and views as it did...xD

It is a touchy subject tho. As already said no rule explicitly restricts HnS so it is all about the interpretation of the rules and how u interpret a hide and seek day. U can see it in different ways....warday ,Freeday, game.... a lot of wats which all were discussed here. See a subject that grabbed attention and will prob be discussed further in meetings

SELF-CROWNED JUKE KING OF 2017
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rebeler since february 2016

we all have different lifes, different problems and different paths to take.....
but what we all wonder is: would they be proud of who i am today?

Princess Strawberry: "HEY, i know everything about Denmark , OK?
Princess Strawberry: "what kind of waffles do they eat in Denmark?"
Princess Strawberry: "OH WAIT SHIT THAT'S BELGIUM"

<16:59:31> "Eclipzx_" was banned for 10 minutes from the server by "GoopSauce" (pussy much?)

*warden*: There's 1 rebeler in garage please get him
*INBREADCATS*: It's only 1 rebeler,what can he do......oh shit it's terminator i'm coming

reboobalar: "term this is your warning because i know you're just gonna rebel"
reboobalar: "fuck this, im not going to be Ct with Term on their team"

Yeah precisely mate. I'd like to keep them in the game because I think they have merit.

I agree that it's important not to have rules directly prohibiting any number of things, but rather restrictions on certain behaviours that create the problem in the first place. That's always been the intention from my perspective and it's a noble one. For example, the ban on reaction-based games is more about rewarding skill and sometimes a degree of luck instead of rewarding those players with the best and nearest connection to the server. The aim, as I see it, is to reward a certain attitude and deter another.

A Hide and Seek day where the CT's camp armory and come out 30 seconds later might be a problem to some because it breaks a rule, but to me it's perfectly okay to run one in that regard and we always did it this way back in the old days without any recourse. I'm not sure why anybody wants to create a Hide and Seek day without the armory camping, unless their intention to uphold the strength of one rule. What are the reasons for this? On regular orders, that rule is in place to stop the kind of greedy behaviour that spoils the game for rebelling T's. But on Hide and Seek days, it's a logical counter-measure for the CT's that gives the Hide and Seek day the strength that it needs to succeed because it stops the game from devolving into a warday. The way I see it, armory camping on a Hide and Seek day should be fine provided the CT's are not in there for a second longer than necessary.

At their core, there is nothing inherently wrong or unsporting about them. Perhaps as we have more discussion and talk about it at the next admin meeting we will paint a clearer picture and come up with some way that we can have them without setting a precedent that will spiral into any number of prohibitive additions to the rules.