Simon Says is just being used as a way to get around the warning rule, people are intentionally trying to kill players who don't understand rules.

Idk why everyone is so blind to this, there's been multiple posts about it.

This has nothing to do with that, it’s about giving one simon says order and then doing another one that in my option supercedes it, instead people get killed if they do that second order.

By this definition then freeze order has been misapplied.

An Advisor already provided you with a final answer.

Threads discussing the smallest logistics of rules is what the warning rule is trying to prevent.

Simon says was never an issue before the warning rule was put in, but people are using it as a way to be a nazi warden by playing around grey zones.

Not trying to come off as an asshole about it, but there are so many different interesting maps and games to play, yet people get caught up on this bullshit.
I don't think anyone even enjoys simon says, it's just the new math trivia of JB.

Idk how doing Simon Says with all the T's frozen at the bottom of stairs and giving these kind of orders is "abusing the warning rule" ??? Maybe if the T's are in front of their cells and you say you're playing simon says and order them to crouch to the bottom of stairs, but I rarely see it happen.

Personally I agree with Aj’s interpretation, however I think it should keep being interpretaed the same way just for consitency’s sake.

To break it down, there is two ways to look at it:

1. T’s are able to uncrouch because it is implied as apart of the freeze order that they can crouch as they please. If Simon tells T’s to “freeze”, by definition they would be able able to uncrouch/crouch. Simon didn’t say for them to crouch/uncrouch directly but he did tell them indirectly under the implication of giving a “freeze” order that they could. Crouching freely is simply apart of the freeze order, just like moving your mouse and “freelooking. Albet it may be a more extreme example and obviously more nazi than the crouching technicality, wardens during the game NEVER kill people for freelooking even though they were never told by Simon to freelook. Like I said, a little more extreme and nitpicky but by the definition of freeze it would make just as much sense to kill them for freelooking as it would crouching. Being told to freeze does mean that you can crouch if you want but this seems to be thrown out the window during Simon Says.

2. T’s can’t crouch when ordered to freeze because the warden didn’t tell them to. A good comparison to draw would be outside of Simon Says when the warden all T’s to crouch and remain crouching, if someone isn’t crouching after this order is given (even if they are told to freeze), they would be warned, the only difference in Simon Says is that they can be killed immediately because it is a death game. They can’t croucb under the basis of Simon not telling them to.

Looking into these technicalities produces even more technicalities such as the following:
- Simon never told T’s to freelook, does that mean he can kill them?
- If Simon just says “All T’s crouch” without telling them to remain doing the action, should they crouch and uncrouch if they want like they could normally in the round or keep crouching (Normally in Simon Says uncrouching would lead to death, in the round normally it wouldn’t lead to a warning/death)

Overall, it really seems dumb to look into specific technicalities of things like this. Both ways could make sense, but one needs to be deemed officially “right”. There isn’t really much point in looking too much into it, its not like this is killing the server or really hurting anything how it is. You have to ask if this change will really make things THAT much better or simply make matters worse. In this situation I think changing it at this point would cause more problems than it would fix because having to tell everyone the change, having to admin the change, having to explain the change to those who don’t know, dealing with people who disagree with the change (etc).

Like I said, I personally think #1 is the “correct” interpretation but it should remain as #2 for consistency’s sake, it isn’t really ruinjng anyting too much how it is and it would just make more problems if changed. It’s been like this for a while and it will be annoying to handle similar to the metagaming situation.

I think the best response would just be to have Staff+ come to a consensus what they want and have that be the final word on the matter. Otherwise it would be best for everyone else to just keep to giving their feedback and refrain from saying “This is how it is” just because they in their mind THINK it is right.

Fair enough, could swing both ways. Seems it really just comes down to admins / wardens discretion at the time though they would need to specify. Will try to bring it up to Staff+ so we can get an accurate decision.


Wouldn't say this is final. Advisors don't separate Staff anymore than they get "more say" but regardless that doesn't mean they're always provided with the most appropriate answer.


Simon says is just a regular death game that has been used since day one. Wouldn't say CTs are going out of their way to do Simon Says to bend the warning rule but rather it's an easy-to-play game that's not math trivia.

Especially considering the most played map is razor being that there aren't any games to play other than custom ones.

Yeah my b


I feel you, I just think that there is a larger underlying issue within this.

Razor was never meant to be the primary map, I think that constantly playing it sort of demoralizes the community and creates these issues as a result.

We can sit on the forums and debate small details forever, but the best solution I can see is people going further out of their comfort zones and trying different maps.

Depending on whether "Simon" says "Simon says don't do anything Simon doesn't tell you to do" which normally does occur though tends to not be said here & there, but being said that if the T is 360ing around when "Simon didn't say" then yes, initially they'd be breaking Simon's command / set rules and said to be killed as that's surpassing "free looking" but if you're going to take it to the extreme where T's wouldn't be allowed turn their mouse an inch the left or glance at a CT to the right then I'd considered it "being a nazi" otherwise throw it under the "don't act like an asshole" where the rest of the undisclosed implications go.

Won't go in depth but just to throw it out there "crouch" to be one ctrl down whereas "remained crouch" would be a hold. Self explanatory.


Seems we, members in whole, tend to over complicate the logistics of each rule.

A bit unrealistic to think that not that it's a bad idea but we're already built enough around razor. Won't change.