Activists Detained in UK for Incorrect Opinions

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:36 pm

Neezon wrote:

Lunk wrote:

Neezon wrote:

I would heavily suggest reading further into this issue before voicing strong opinions. Upon further research, taking me literally 5-10 minutes, I found that the reasons for the detainment of these two individuals was due to denial of entry into the country. Thus, they are detained and refused entry into England until they can/will be sent back to the locations from which they departed.

The reasons for their denial of entry, if people are interested, is due to suspicion of travelling to the country to push extremist views and potentially incite hatred (which could turn violent). In large parts of Europe, there are laws to hinder harmful or violent racial/cultural discrimination. Frankly my sources are in Norwegian so they will be pointless to link you, but I can post the meaningful quotes they gathered (in English) from their British sources.

"On Friday night, Martin Sellner, the Co-Leader of Generation Identity Austria, was refused entry to the UK at Luton Airport. After landing at approximately 13:00, he was detained by Border Police and separated from US Vlogger, Brittany Pettibone. He was subsequently informed that he was being denied entry to the UK and that he would be detained until Sunday evening when he would be allowed to return home."

So in other words, they are not being "jailed" or "imprisoned" for their wish to speak about an issue, but are rather being denied entry into the country for this specific purpose only. From what I could also quickly gather, Martin Sellner specifically is strongly anti-islam, having been involved in neo-nazism in his earlier life, as well as now being a prominent figure in nationalist, so-called "anti-sharia" groups. And while I don't disagree with criticism of religions or cultures, inciting hatred for them is something entirely different.

Whether or not their speeches legitimately would incite hatred and/or violence however is something I am uncertain of, as none of the websites I have found would give any valuable level of context as to the specifics of these supposedly harmful speeches. Please keep in mind, the 2 articles linked by Synthic above are both far-right and thus prone to heavy bias. Both articles fail to mention the fact the primary action here was denial of entry, making this issue out to be far worse than it really is. And to be as transparent as I can, the Norwegian sources I used were in fact also right-leaning, but simply provided more valuable information.

i dont think your giving the other guys in this post enough credit. syntic knows they were detained because they were refused entry, (although there are many ppl in the uk (citizens) that have been arrested for "hate speech") thats not what they have a problem with. the problem is the government deciding what political "extremists" and how it does not seem to be objective or non-biased. There has been no quotes of threats or reason to believe they would actually incite violence just being members of different political groups. i was actually looking for something that could be considered a threat but could'it find any so if u have any quotes or something please link them my way. The far left seems to be calling everything right of them (even the center left) nazi's especially if they are not fond of mass immigration or Islam as a political force.

syntic, kharn and those guys feel free speech plays an important role in a healthy country and im definitely with them on that one. giving the government the power to say which ideas/groups/words are okay is super dangerous because any group with opposing views to the current government can be unfairly persecuted or called an extremist whether or not they have actually done anything bad. i think letting the idea of free speech die is how you force people into choosing to joining extremist groups like communists, fascists, or other radical groups so they feel they will have someone who actually cares about the group they belong to in charge.

I get what you mean yeah, and there definitely could be an unhealthy bias in the system, though that is not what I am trying to argue. My point is that we don't really have even nearly enough specifics to lean either way (in my opinion at least). What I tried to illustrate is how biased, agenda-driven websites can quickly make wrong conclusions, or simply omit important information, and so it is better not to form a strong opinion until more/better information is available. I can't say the denial of entry was warranted, nor can I say it wasn't warranted. So while there certainly may be an issue regarding bias of opinions in the UK, I simply feel this example or, at the very least, the provided articles regarding the situation are far too inadequate in meaningfully illustrating such a problem. Simply due, as stated, to a lack of context/specific information.

oh there is hella evidence my dude, just a quick google search can show u some of the crazy stuff the gets called hate speech in the uk. a man is actually facing possible prison time for posting a video of his lil pug raising his paw when someone says heil hiter. you cant point to a victim there but the guy is still going to court over that joke

Neezon · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:45 pm

Uchies wrote:

Kharn wrote:

Uchies wrote:

It’s a meme because Lauren Southern and Tommy Robinson are despised by left-wing media.

Ah, hard to believe that any "Right-wing" media/reporters even exist over there, as Lunk put it in regards to the far/-left wing in the EU and UK have had a firm grip on all things MSM for a long time now, longer than any of us have been alive.

I'll have to take a glance at that site again.

It's funny because anything slightly right-of-center is considered "extremist" by the UK media. Lauren and Tommy are both libertarian, but due to their stance on mass immigration, are portrayed by the media to be "hate-mongering", "extremist", and "alt-right".

What, in your opinion then, is extremism? From what I can find (through, admittedly, limited amounts of time spent researching), Tommy at least is and has been involved in several anti-immigration groups focusing particularly and specifically on keeping Islam and muslims out of England, as well as partaking in specific anti-islam groups such as the UK branch of Pegida. In my opinion, when you take a step further from anti-immigration, into specifically targeting a specific race or culture, as well as attempting to further the ideals of "keep England ethnically clean and intact", you have crossed over into extremist viewpoints.

Here for example is a quote I found, from an article regarding an extensive analysis of message boards used by EDL (English Defence League) members, a group formed by Tommy himself: "The ideology in forming the EDL was the belief that the religion of Islam "challenges an English, Christian way of life". To me, that is extremism. If you disagree, I would love to hear why so I can try to understand your point of view.

Neezon · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:53 pm

Lunk wrote:

oh there is hella evidence my dude, just a quick google search can show u some of the crazy stuff the gets called hate speech in the uk. a man is actually facing possible prison time for posting a video of his lil pug raising his paw when someone says heil hiter. you cant point to a victim there but the guy is still going to court over that joke

Fair enough. In my opinion though, why not then instead use those sorts of links for basis in a debate/discussion? If those links/examples you speak of provide better, more specific context, that would be far more valuable in showcasing the problematic situation in England. My entire point here, as stated, is not that other posters in this thread are necessarily wrong in there being something wrong going on in England, simply that the provided articles used as examples are, quite frankly, awful sources. This, in my opinion, due to the clickbaity and sensationalist nature of them, as well as their very clear agenda-driven writing and omission of details. Articles like those are in my opinion weak if they attempt to force an opinion/conclusion onto the reader, instead of actually providing the reader with the evidence and then allowing them to decide for themselves.

Keep in mind, I do feel a need to specify that the "thegatewaypundit" does a far better job of providing information rather than forcing an opinion on its viewers, although not being clear enough on certain details imo. The "Voiceofeurope" article however is simply horrendous.

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:34 pm

Neezon wrote:

Uchies wrote:

Kharn wrote:

Uchies wrote:

It’s a meme because Lauren Southern and Tommy Robinson are despised by left-wing media.

Ah, hard to believe that any "Right-wing" media/reporters even exist over there, as Lunk put it in regards to the far/-left wing in the EU and UK have had a firm grip on all things MSM for a long time now, longer than any of us have been alive.

I'll have to take a glance at that site again.

It's funny because anything slightly right-of-center is considered "extremist" by the UK media. Lauren and Tommy are both libertarian, but due to their stance on mass immigration, are portrayed by the media to be "hate-mongering", "extremist", and "alt-right".

What, in your opinion then, is extremism? From what I can find (through, admittedly, limited amounts of time spent researching), Tommy at least is and has been involved in several anti-immigration groups focusing particularly and specifically on keeping Islam and muslims out of England, as well as partaking in specific anti-islam groups such as the UK branch of Pegida. In my opinion, when you take a step further from anti-immigration, into specifically targeting a specific race or culture, as well as attempting to further the ideals of "keep England ethnically clean and intact", you have crossed over into extremist viewpoints.

Here for example is a quote I found, from an article regarding an extensive analysis of message boards used by EDL (English Defence League) members, a group formed by Tommy himself: "The ideology in forming the EDL was the belief that the religion of Islam "challenges an English, Christian way of life". To me, that is extremism. If you disagree, I would love to hear why so I can try to understand your point of view.

coming from a Muslim family i can honestly say its not wrong to single out specific ideologies. It IS wrong to do it by race/gender/sexual orientation or other things you cannot change about yourself, but when it comes to political views and culture i think it very necessary. Islam is not just a belief of where we all came from it describes a political system and view as well. its a lot more political than the Jewish or christian faiths and just like the old testament it has a LOT of things that go against western slandereds (i.e. equality, how justice should be dealt, punishments for smoking, drinking, ect ect). When immigration is slow and we take the most highly educated of different countries they adapt to western culture just fine. A good example is the Muslims in Canada who are not extremist or hostile to our values at all (99.9.% at least) but if you go to kenya (where half my family is from and you talk to the Muslims over there its crazy. so when you take a huge number of people with a very different culture and are not well educated into your country they will not adapt to western values because they can just live with other people who agree with them and have the numbers to vote to change laws to suit them better instead of western values.

And if you do not think western values are important then you throw away things that took hundreds of years to establish such as human right, equality, legal sex age, due process, fair trials, the idea of racism being bad, LGBT rights, equal pay and hiring practices, im sure you get the idea.

Nick Cage · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:21 pm

What the hell is so hard about humans working together. We are all the same alien. If we put 1/4th the amount of effort we put towards killing each other into working together and exploring space, curing cancer and diseases the human race would be thriving. Instead we leave ourselves with grief and death and rot on a planet we are killing every second. We are so insignificant. Politics, leaders, war.. its so obsolete in the grand scheme of things. Open your eyes. Stop living a life thats been lived a thousands times. Do somethings worth doing. The human race is failing itself.

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:44 pm

Nick Cage wrote:

What the hell is so hard about humans working together. We are all the same alien. If we put 1/4th the amount of effort we put towards killing each other into working together and exploring space, curing cancer and diseases the human race would be thriving. Instead we leave ourselves with grief and death and rot on a planet we are killing every second. We are so insignificant. Politics, leaders, war.. its so obsolete in the grand scheme of things. Open your eyes. Stop living a life thats been lived a thousands times. Do somethings worth doing. The human race is failing itself.

lol gay

Synthic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Neezon wrote:

I would heavily suggest reading further into this issue before voicing strong opinions. Upon further research, taking me literally 5-10 minutes, I found that the reasons for the detainment of these two individuals was due to denial of entry into the country. Thus, they are detained and refused entry into England until they can/will be sent back to the locations from which they departed.

The reasons for their denial of entry, if people are interested, is due to suspicion of travelling to the country to push extremist views and potentially incite hatred (which could turn violent). In large parts of Europe, there are laws to hinder harmful or violent racial/cultural discrimination. Frankly my sources are in Norwegian so they will be pointless to link you, but I can post the meaningful quotes they gathered (in English) from their British sources.

"On Friday night, Martin Sellner, the Co-Leader of Generation Identity Austria, was refused entry to the UK at Luton Airport. After landing at approximately 13:00, he was detained by Border Police and separated from US Vlogger, Brittany Pettibone. He was subsequently informed that he was being denied entry to the UK and that he would be detained until Sunday evening when he would be allowed to return home."

So in other words, they are not being "jailed" or "imprisoned" for their wish to speak about an issue, but are rather being denied entry into the country for this specific purpose only. From what I could also quickly gather, Martin Sellner specifically is strongly anti-islam, having been involved in neo-nazism in his earlier life, as well as now being a prominent figure in nationalist, so-called "anti-sharia" groups. And while I don't disagree with criticism of religions or cultures, inciting hatred for them is something entirely different.

Whether or not their speeches legitimately would incite hatred and/or violence however is something I am uncertain of, as none of the websites I have found would give any valuable level of context as to the specifics of these supposedly harmful speeches. Please keep in mind, the 2 articles linked by Synthic above are both far-right and thus prone to heavy bias. Both articles fail to mention the fact the primary action here was denial of entry, making this issue out to be far worse than it really is. And to be as transparent as I can, the Norwegian sources I used were in fact also right-leaning, but simply provided more valuable information.

MuH fAr RiGhT nEwS sOuRcEs!1

you people get so old.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ar ... 64246.html

https://www.dailywire.com/news/17807/br ... hua-yasmeh

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10 ... -one-year/

https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/24/1129 ... t-brussels

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poli ... -b8nkpgp2d

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jai ... ee-speech/

Doldol wrote:

Quote:

Lauren Southern has revealed, that after speaking with Brittany Pettibone on the phone, the police have detained the couple separately and for the ‘crime’ of having right-wing opinions as well as wanting to interview Tommy Robinson and holding their speech.

>> voiceofeurope.com

HAHAHAHA I CANT EVEN, these memes dude.

Really good argument :)

Also, why did you abandon your gun control arguments in the thread we were debating in?

Nick Cage · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:24 pm

Lunk wrote:

Nick Cage wrote:

What the hell is so hard about humans working together. We are all the same alien. If we put 1/4th the amount of effort we put towards killing each other into working together and exploring space, curing cancer and diseases the human race would be thriving. Instead we leave ourselves with grief and death and rot on a planet we are killing every second. We are so insignificant. Politics, leaders, war.. its so obsolete in the grand scheme of things. Open your eyes. Stop living a life thats been lived a thousands times. Do somethings worth doing. The human race is failing itself.

lol gay

Truth

Doldol · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:01 pm

Synthic wrote:

Really good argument :)

Also, why did you abandon your gun control arguments in the thread we were debating in?

Nice b8 m8.

If you truly want to discuss something find me on EgN's TS3

Synthic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:24 pm

Doldol wrote:

Synthic wrote:

Really good argument :)

Also, why did you abandon your gun control arguments in the thread we were debating in?

Nice b8 m8.

If you truly want to discuss something find me on EgN's TS3

What exactly was the bait, im just asking why you abandoned the thread friend

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