Not really Stagediving, the continuation.

Xanderian · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:46 am

I get why this got moved here, but if it's getting moved here, what's the point of locking the other thread?

The other thread was about an entirely different discussion, about mosh pits.

Kharn · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:55 am

Neezon wrote:

I respect that you have that opinion, which is fair. However as I said above, I feel as though these are the type of issues that should be common knowledge amongst americans, and if they aren't, I'm not really invested enough to dig up good articles about it, as it can be a rather complicated situation in full. So to those not aware, my argument definitely will be weak.

Also trying to not sounds arrogant about it, even if I often am, I just feel like it should be such a hot topic in the US that people would know.

Arrogant and lazy, I now understand completely how you hold such moronic "belief's" since that's all they are. I doubt you could find credible sources detailing just how the current issue of Terrorism in EU could be because of America, when all I need to do is find any number of articles detailing how welcoming EU has been to the "Refugee's". So pardon me but I think I'll state my "Belief", which is that EU has opened the flood-gates and allowed the filth to flow in all of its own volutions, you could have stopped it, you could have stood against the tide and simply said "No, you made your own mess with the tribal warfare and drug growing, and Sharia law and moronic faith. Go back, we do not want you." And Russia and NATO would have continued it's proxy-war shit, which has been going on for nigh on 70 year's, which will never end as long as the era of "Superpowers" continues. To which you WANT this war to be fought more than I do, European, you want America keeping the real threat in check.

Why do you think America shifted a shitload of tanks to Poland?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 49906.html

Or Putin's very real and very recent "Threat"?
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/1/1706 ... r-election

Or how absolutely fucking crazy the difference in defense spending is in NATO, showing that America bears the weight of keeping NATO a threat to Russia/China/NK/shitty-countries.

Quote:

In 2010 the governments of the 26 EDA pMS spent a total of €194 billion on defence. The US spent the equivalent of €520 billion (or $689 billion). Between 2006 and 2008 the aggregated defence expenditure of the 26 EDA pMS has been about half that of the US.

https://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/pres ... e_spending

Sorry, I'm sure my smug American attitude must be off-putting, but I'll remind you of a simple indisputable truth:

In 1944, my grandfather volunteered instead of allowing some other member of my extended family to be drafted against their will, since he was in the best shape and could shoot well already. His first steps in Europe were taken upon landing on Omaha Beach, 3 day's after D-day, and was his start of the war. He stayed in Germany till 1946, helping to build and re-purpose buildings around the Fulda Gap(An invasion route the USSR would have used to invade the EU).

Not only did someone in my family fight in EU, to bring freedom, he also worked there to KEEP it free and to ensure that you could post on this forum and make such remarks. OH! And against his own will, and when he had his daughter(My Oldest Aunt) to raise and care for.

It's kinda crazy how someone in the EU can feel so, and it does seem like it's common, high-and-mighty yet you share a landmass with the biggest bullies in the world yet depend on America while also being the most critical of it. OH! And you have allowed your own forces to degrade so much, that should America withdraw from NATO, NATO would cease to exist and there would be some seriously dark times. Though I'm sure if you guy's diverted some of those taxes being used to give aid/comfort to the refugee's that it would be sorted eventually, and sorted even sooner if you cut many of the wonderful tax-funded socialized systems ...because the EU doesn't bother trying to keep it's military in any shape to fend off the Bear or the Tiger.

But don't worry, Neezon my Smug European member, America isn't going anywhere and our only plans are to build a fucking wall between us and the crazy that is Mexico.

Kharn · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:56 am

Gr1m0ire wrote:

I get why this got moved here, but if it's getting moved here, what's the point of locking the other thread?

The other thread was about an entirely different discussion, about mosh pits.

Not sure, but since it most likely was to keep it from derailing till this thread was up I can go unlock it.

Uchies · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:54 pm

Wow great conversation guys, really fun and insightful.

Yiggles Moto · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 pm

Neezon wrote:

Yiggles Moto wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Neezon wrote:

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion. What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

If you want to make a statement with that much weight to it, the burden of proof is on you. Since you seem really against providing sources, makes anyone reading your replies skeptical to believe you at all.

"its america's fault and if you don't believe me then piss off" is not a very good way to back it up

I respect that you have that opinion, which is fair. However as I said above, I feel as though these are the type of issues that should be common knowledge amongst americans, and if they aren't, I'm not really invested enough to dig up good articles about it, as it can be a rather complicated situation in full. So to those not aware, my argument definitely will be weak.

Also trying to not sounds arrogant about it, even if I often am, I just feel like it should be such a hot topic in the US that people would know.

If it was common knowledge or even a hot topic as you claim, then it would be super easy for you to find credible sources to back you up. 5 minutes tops, which I can assume you already spent with replying to back yourself up. Doesn't make sense that you still stand behind the "if you don't know it then that's your fault" if you had facts to back you up and wanted to change someone's mind rather than preach your own.

Terminator · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 pm

look, i don't wanna be the party pooper here but how are the last replies on this topic about the topic?
like to me it seems that u are just going up against neezon because he writes what he believes, wether true or not u shouldn't really bang up against it, should u?

like no offence kharn, but calling somebody "arrogant and lazy" shouldn't fit here, or am i wrong?
like, u can feel offended or insulted by what neezon stated and claimed, but no reason to get so angry (thats how i interpreted it) about it.

like, personally i believe that terrorism is caused by a small group of extremists that use carefully chosen words and clever manipulation to get people to do theire dirty work, not for a believe or revenge but just for theire own satisfaction.
and those are the people that cause terrorism, the people that use problems of other good men and women to manipulate them so they start killing others.

but hey, thats my opinion... u don't have to agree with it and u can surely respond to it, but no need to get offencive is theire?

Doldol · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:23 pm

Kharn wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Doldol wrote:

Could you please provide citation and/or any other kind of evidence for highlighted.

Sure
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-euro ... SKBN1FO0UP

Quote:

Prosecutors say Abdeslam and Ayari fled the Forest flat while Belkaid held off police. Ayari’s defense on Monday was that he and Abdeslam did not open fire before fleeing. The prosecutor, however, sought 20 years in prison for both, saying they took part in a joint operation to ambush the officers.

Quote from the article.

Also my

Kharn wrote:

Doldol wrote:

Personally, I'm really into European culture, so I tend to bring my Muslim master out to these events, always makes it a bang-ing show for me like in Paris tbh. =]

Was a joke response for the ar15 response you made first in that thread, citation shouldn't be needed for a counter joke to another joke.

You didn't provide evidence for the latter part of what the maximum jail time is in the EU, the EU itself doesn't even strictly regulate that, and it does differ somewhat per country.
I don't know what max jail time you are referring to (for their charges or nationally).

But in Belgium life imprisonment is legal, there are just a lot of parole options, as we still see prison as a form of rehabilitation and actively try to do that.

Personally 20 years effectively I think is more than enough, to my knowledge they only provided logistical support and/or never actually carried out attacks they themselves were ordered to do. A lot of these people essentially get brainwashed into doing this, I think it's much more important to try to rehabilitate them, and maybe even employ them in some sort of psychological campaign to prevent other people from having this happen to them. The true issues are the people that mass-convert impressionable, often young people like some Imaans do. However at least Belgian law needs some reformation to better deal with these people, which is underway.

I don't think it would be fair to send these people off to a facility where they'd be handled sub-humanely and which is technically not really but yes really in EU territory.

##########################

Neezon never claimed that the US was the direct cause of Terrorism in Europe, you laid that restriction upon him, but that's twisting his words.

The US basically played world-police in the middle east, probably starting when they didn't want Russia to successfully invade (That's how what Spazzo mentioned started), and they've having wars and proxy wars (they're having one of those right now). This escalated middle-easter internal conflicts to a grander scale and made some of term turn to point at the west as the "guilty one". Which is to my knowledge the sole main base reason the US actually had to even start their "War On Terror". Since the EU is in many ways similar (and we've recently been helping you guys against ISIL and political leaders openly declared support) we are now also getting targeted by them.

Since you have, let me fix-it-for-you.

Kharn wrote:

Neezon wrote:

I respect that you have that opinion, which is fair. However as I said above, I feel as though these are the type of issues that should be common knowledge amongst americans, and if they aren't, I'm not really invested enough to dig up good articles about it, as it can be a rather complicated situation in full. So to those not aware, my argument definitely will be weak.

Also trying to not sounds arrogant about it, even if I often am, I just feel like it should be such a hot topic in the US that people would know.

Arrogant and lazy, I'm an american who knows is wrong but am to patriotic to not want to give up my guns and to let my country give up world-policing, in-fact I'm doing you all a favor by letting MY country defend IT'S foreign interest! You should basically thank me and raise the 'murican flag, boi! I'm proud, proud I say my country prioritises it's military over simply unimportant things such as health care and education. Cuz who needs that, I have ma gunz n ma freedom, that's all anyone ever wants and needs!

-insert patriotic quote of the day-

Quote:

our only plans are to build a fucking wall between us and the crazy that is Mexico.

Well rip your only plan then, that wall will never happen, it is just not economically feasible.

Uchies · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:35 pm

Doldol wrote:

Neezon never claimed that the US was the direct cause of Terrorism in Europe,

Quote:

terrorism issues in Europe were largely instigated by the US

Doldol · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:42 pm

Uchies wrote:

Doldol wrote:

Neezon never claimed that the US was the direct cause of Terrorism in Europe,

Quote:

terrorism issues in Europe were largely instigated by the US

Can you please kindly exit this topic, because I'm at this point sure you are actually only able to circlejerk and/or bandwagon and that you are incapable of logical discussion or forming your own opinion and arguing it.

Uchies > [door]

[/door] > Uchies

Go play with your guns or something.

Uchies · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:44 pm

Doldol wrote:

Uchies wrote:

Doldol wrote:

Neezon never claimed that the US was the direct cause of Terrorism in Europe,

Quote:

terrorism issues in Europe were largely instigated by the US

Can you please kindly exit this topic, because I'm at this point sure you are actually only able to circlejerk and/or bandwagon and that you are incapable of logical discussion or forming your own opinion and arguing it.

Uchies > [door]

[/door] > Uchies

So the end result of this discussion is you telling people that you disagree with to leave and stop commenting.

Well played. See ya! ?

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