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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:14 pm 
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koolaidman wrote:
Central wrote:
koolaidman wrote:
I just want to clarify that [size=150]I wasn't suggesting that Dyno, or anyone, slaying for breaking that rule is petty, but that the rule itself is petty[/size]; CONSIDERING that there are many other unintended glitches that give one side an advantage on various maps. and none of those ever have rules enforced upon them.

If I may ask, how is slaying people for exploiting the map petty? By doing so you’re learning the exact location of the opposite side without actually trying to find them with your own eye without the exploit. This rule as Dyno, and Needy have already answered, it falls under the rule of No scripts or hacks/etc which puts you, and any others who use that exploit at an unfair advantage; and the CTs at an unfair disadvantage because you know their location by using an exploit. So I ask again, how is it petty for us admins to slay people for exploiting?


Looks like you didn't even read what I said. I said the exact opposite of what you are asking. Read it again. Admins are just doing their jobs. I just think the rule is extreme. 90% of the time it doesn't work because the enemy has to be doing certain actions while you are looking at them at the right angle, and by the time you make a move they are in a different spot. I've used that box on Spy a ton of times and it never actually helped, it was just something to pass the time until 3:30.

Um, no. I know which exploit you’re talking about and have used it plenty of times. You get the exact location of the CT team, whoever it near that vent i.e, and I’ve see plenty of players use it then immediately go up the vent and kill whichever CT is close. No reason to play it off like you’ve never had an advantage using it. Also, if it’s just some fun exploit to pass the time that doesn’t help you at all then why continue to argue for a rule with more explicitly? You went from “everyone uses it to get an advantage” to “well it never actually worked”. Also, if there are any other spots you would consider to be an exploit, report it to forums or ask a Staff to determine whether it is or isn’t an exploit that way we can keep players from using it.


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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:18 pm 
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It’s a given that map exploits aren’t allowed, but cases like this are bound to pop up if there is no rule directly confronting the issue. People will 99% of the time know they are doing something wrong and will simply use the fact there is no rule to justify their wrongdoings. Rule or not, it is wrong simply due to common sense.

Personally I think the admin should warn them to stop, slay them if they do it again without question and then ban for x amount of appropriate time for ignoring admins / directly going out of their way to disobey. They know they are doing wrong and doing it with malicious intent. If they want to exploit and disregard admins, then they shouldn’t be on the server. We had a similar issue with certain maps being exploited in NsG and the best way to deal with it was to crack down hard on people doing it, especially regulars and those who have been warned.

Also, Doldol’s solution wouldn’t be plausible due to the fact it doesn’t happen on a particular vent or map, this exploit works on most maps in one way or another. Any place where you can jump and have your head hit the ceiling this will occur.


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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Cooper wrote:
It’s a given that map exploits aren’t allowed, but cases like this are bound to pop up if there is no rule directly confronting the issue. People will 99% of the time know they are doing something wrong and will simply use the fact there is no rule to justify their wrongdoings. Rule or not, it is wrong simply due to common sense.

Personally I think the admin should warn them to stop, slay them if they do it again without question and then ban for x amount of appropriate time for ignoring admins / directly going out of their way to disobey. They know they are doing wrong and doing it with malicious intent. If they want to exploit and disregard admins, then they shouldn’t be on the server. We had a similar issue with certain maps being exploited in NsG and the best way to deal with it was to crack down hard on people doing it, especially regulars and those who have been warned.

Also, Doldol’s solution wouldn’t be plausible due to the fact it doesn’t happen on a particular vent or map, this exploit works on most maps in one way or another. Any place where you can jump and have your head hit the ceiling this will occur.

well my dude there used to be a rule "no hacking, cheating, or exploits" and it was covered there but for some reason they changed it to "No Hacking or scripts - Play fair!" which seems kinda silly but thats what admins these days are thinking i guess?
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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Lunk wrote:
Cooper wrote:
It’s a given that map exploits aren’t allowed, but cases like this are bound to pop up if there is no rule directly confronting the issue. People will 99% of the time know they are doing something wrong and will simply use the fact there is no rule to justify their wrongdoings. Rule or not, it is wrong simply due to common sense.

Personally I think the admin should warn them to stop, slay them if they do it again without question and then ban for x amount of appropriate time for ignoring admins / directly going out of their way to disobey. They know they are doing wrong and doing it with malicious intent. If they want to exploit and disregard admins, then they shouldn’t be on the server. We had a similar issue with certain maps being exploited in NsG and the best way to deal with it was to crack down hard on people doing it, especially regulars and those who have been warned.

Also, Doldol’s solution wouldn’t be plausible due to the fact it doesn’t happen on a particular vent or map, this exploit works on most maps in one way or another. Any place where you can jump and have your head hit the ceiling this will occur.



well my dude there used to be a rule "no hacking, cheating, or exploits" and it was covered there but for some reason they changed it to "No Hacking or scripts - Play fair!" which seems kinda silly but thats what admins these days are thinking i guess?


Outside of common sense, the “Play Fair” part seems to imply it as well


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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Cooper wrote:
Lunk wrote:
Cooper wrote:
It’s a given that map exploits aren’t allowed, but cases like this are bound to pop up if there is no rule directly confronting the issue. People will 99% of the time know they are doing something wrong and will simply use the fact there is no rule to justify their wrongdoings. Rule or not, it is wrong simply due to common sense.

Personally I think the admin should warn them to stop, slay them if they do it again without question and then ban for x amount of appropriate time for ignoring admins / directly going out of their way to disobey. They know they are doing wrong and doing it with malicious intent. If they want to exploit and disregard admins, then they shouldn’t be on the server. We had a similar issue with certain maps being exploited in NsG and the best way to deal with it was to crack down hard on people doing it, especially regulars and those who have been warned.

Also, Doldol’s solution wouldn’t be plausible due to the fact it doesn’t happen on a particular vent or map, this exploit works on most maps in one way or another. Any place where you can jump and have your head hit the ceiling this will occur.



well my dude there used to be a rule "no hacking, cheating, or exploits" and it was covered there but for some reason they changed it to "No Hacking or scripts - Play fair!" which seems kinda silly but thats what admins these days are thinking i guess?


Outside of common sense, the “Play Fair” part seems to imply it as well


Why the hell was exploits taken out of the rules in the first place. 10/10
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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:36 pm 
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I guess my client has issues or something because I only see other player models like 5-10% of the time when I headbang a ceiling, and only if they are within like 20 feet :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:47 pm 
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In the end, that particular spot is considered an exploit on our servers. BUT if you’d still like to add or rearrange the wording of any particular rule check in at the admin meeting and we’ll vote on it.
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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Cooper wrote:
Also, Doldol’s solution wouldn’t be plausible due to the fact it doesn’t happen on a particular vent or map, this exploit works on most maps in one way or another. Any place where you can jump and have your head hit the ceiling this will occur.


I was just joking, not an actual solution, however if you challenge me I will actually disable jumping.


In all seriousness though I could probs do a bbox trace above the player and restrict jumping if theres a wall above you.

Valve actually does this and lowers eye height (check eyeClearance), but I guess they f'd up edge cases.
Syntax - c: Download - Hide
void CCSGameMovement::PlayerMove()
{
        if ( !m_pCSPlayer->CanMove() )
        {
                mv->m_flForwardMove = 0;
                mv->m_flSideMove = 0;
                mv->m_flUpMove = 0;
                mv->m_nButtons &= ~(IN_JUMP | IN_FORWARD | IN_BACK | IN_MOVELEFT | IN_MOVERIGHT);
        }

        BaseClass::PlayerMove();

        if ( FBitSet( m_pCSPlayer->GetFlags(), FL_ONGROUND ) )
        {
                if ( m_pCSPlayer->m_flVelocityModifier < 1.0 )
                {
                        m_pCSPlayer->m_flVelocityModifier += gpGlobals->frametime / 3.0f;
                }

                if ( m_pCSPlayer->m_flVelocityModifier > 1.0 )
                         m_pCSPlayer->m_flVelocityModifier = 1.0;
        }

        if ( m_pCSPlayer->IsAlive() )
        {
                // Check if our eye height is too close to the ceiling and lower it.
                // This is needed because we have taller models with the old collision bounds.

                const float eyeClearance = 12.0f; // eye pos must be this far below the ceiling

                Vector offset = player->GetViewOffset();

                Vector vHullMin = GetPlayerMins( player->m_Local.m_bDucked );
                vHullMin.z = 0.0f;
                Vector vHullMax = GetPlayerMaxs( player->m_Local.m_bDucked );

                Vector start = player->GetAbsOrigin();
                start.z += vHullMax.z;
                Vector end = start;
                end.z += eyeClearance - vHullMax.z;
                end.z += player->m_Local.m_bDucked ? VEC_DUCK_VIEW.z : VEC_VIEW.z;

                vHullMax.z = 0.0f;

                Vector fudge( 1, 1, 0 );
                vHullMin += fudge;
                vHullMax -= fudge;

                trace_t trace;
                Ray_t ray;
                ray.Init( start, end, vHullMin, vHullMax );
                UTIL_TraceRay( ray, PlayerSolidMask(), mv->m_nPlayerHandle.Get(), COLLISION_GROUP_PLAYER_MOVEMENT, &trace );

                if ( trace.fraction < 1.0f )
                {
                        float est = start.z + trace.fraction * (end.z - start.z) - player->GetAbsOrigin().z - eyeClearance;
                        if ( ( player->GetFlags() & FL_DUCKING ) == 0 && !player->m_Local.m_bDucking && !player->m_Local.m_bDucked )
                        {
                                offset.z = est;
                        }
                        else
                        {
                                offset.z = min( est, offset.z );
                        }
                        player->SetViewOffset( offset );
                }
                else
                {
                        if ( ( player->GetFlags() & FL_DUCKING ) == 0 && !player->m_Local.m_bDucking && !player->m_Local.m_bDucked )
                        {
                                player->SetViewOffset( VEC_VIEW );
                        }
                        else if ( m_pCSPlayer->m_duckUntilOnGround )
                        {
                                // Duck Hull, but we're in the air.  Calculate where the view would be.
                                Vector hullSizeNormal = VEC_HULL_MAX - VEC_HULL_MIN;
                                Vector hullSizeCrouch = VEC_DUCK_HULL_MAX - VEC_DUCK_HULL_MIN;

                                // We've got the duck hull, pulled up to the top of where the player should be
                                Vector lowerClearance = hullSizeNormal - hullSizeCrouch;
                                Vector duckEyeHeight = GetPlayerViewOffset( false ) - lowerClearance;
                                player->SetViewOffset( duckEyeHeight );
                        }
                        else if( player->m_Local.m_bDucked && !player->m_Local.m_bDucking )
                        {
                                player->SetViewOffset( VEC_DUCK_VIEW );
                        }
                }
        }
}
 
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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:27 am 
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I’d say make a rule like this:

The use of any exploit of any map to have an unfair advantage against an enemy, (vent ceiling exploit, under the map, missing textures, etc.) is strictly forbidden.

Or something like that. I know it’s quite common sense, but it wouldn’t hurt to add it.


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 Post subject: Re: Exploiting in CS:S
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:35 am 
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We'll talk more about it at the admin meeting for those who attend. Appreciate the suggestion!
To all the the ladies, peace, and humptiness.

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ask me about film, novels, fashion, cinematography, and/or music & you'll have my ear for hours

Doldol 🐾: I'm a Hyper Nova
Doldol 🐾: Kharn can be a
Doldol 🐾: Super Massive Black Hole
EgN-S| Needy: lmao
Doldol 🐾: xD
EgN-S| Needy: dude idk why, but i thought you were going to say super massive black cocc
Doldol 🐾: You can be a
Doldol 🐾: LOL
Doldol 🐾: nono thatd then be micro astroid
Doldol 🐾: or so ive heard
EgN-S| Needy: Like he's just one big degenerate penus
Doldol 🐾: ROFL
Doldol 🐾: IK
Doldol 🐾: xd

her favourite colour was yellow

Smiley: yes, I have a job now so I can be the breadwinner of the household and you can just relax to Rex all day :)

Image

life goals
[  ] become legend before mootinie
[  ] get 10,000 post before mutiny
[  ] marry smiley

Tricky: i don't think any of the staff+ are here to slap their e-penis on you


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