What is your honor worth?

SOCASH · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 2:37 pm

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to fix said exploit then leave it up to the trust of members or even guests?
Other servers don't have this problem, why not make it a non issue instead of making examples out of people?

In order for us to fix said exploits, we need to be aware of them.
We then rely on the playerbase, which actively plays the game in legitimate ways, to tell us about these exploits.
I personally spend my time building in creative mode. This makes it so I'm not too aware of issues outside of my "zone".
Therefore, I trust our members to tell us about these issues so we can avoid further abuse through fixing them. The nether portal bug was apparantly been evident since mid 1.4, which is rather shocking. Fairly few had told Mojang, who couldn't reproduce it and therefore didn't view it as a bug, but rather as a client-sided issue. Same goes for us. If noone tells us - we can't make sure to fix them.
Now that someone did inform us of the glitch, we managed to fix it - I hope.

We don't want to make it a non issue nor to deliberately make examples out of people. All of these incidents have been results of poor users who have decided to avoid informing higher-ups on the server about the issue, and rather use it to their own advantage. Because of their own decisions, they're being made examples of.

I'll try to end my novels here now, but I'm just asking people to please tell us about these bugs/glitches. That way noone has to be made a bad example of...

well my point is that the higher-ups had known about the issue since the night before the example was made, but didn't fix it until it was too late and someone had exploited it. it shouldn't take some one breaking a rule too prevent it, it should be prevented to begin with.

pretzL · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 2:56 pm

SOCASH wrote:

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to fix said exploit then leave it up to the trust of members or even guests?
Other servers don't have this problem, why not make it a non issue instead of making examples out of people?

In order for us to fix said exploits, we need to be aware of them.
We then rely on the playerbase, which actively plays the game in legitimate ways, to tell us about these exploits.
I personally spend my time building in creative mode. This makes it so I'm not too aware of issues outside of my "zone".
Therefore, I trust our members to tell us about these issues so we can avoid further abuse through fixing them. The nether portal bug was apparantly been evident since mid 1.4, which is rather shocking. Fairly few had told Mojang, who couldn't reproduce it and therefore didn't view it as a bug, but rather as a client-sided issue. Same goes for us. If noone tells us - we can't make sure to fix them.
Now that someone did inform us of the glitch, we managed to fix it - I hope.

We don't want to make it a non issue nor to deliberately make examples out of people. All of these incidents have been results of poor users who have decided to avoid informing higher-ups on the server about the issue, and rather use it to their own advantage. Because of their own decisions, they're being made examples of.

I'll try to end my novels here now, but I'm just asking people to please tell us about these bugs/glitches. That way noone has to be made a bad example of...

well my point is that the higher-ups had known about the issue since the night before the example was made, but didn't fix it until it was too late and someone had exploited it. it shouldn't take some one breaking a rule too prevent it, it should be prevented to begin with.

Wether or not the higher-ups knew about the glitch before the server went down for repairs, I don't know.
The fact that someone continued to abuse the exploit, even after it was publicly made an exploit and a bannable offence (which it is an always will be), is what got them banned. I'm going to go as far as to guess you're not familiar with coding. When someone codes something, there may be bugs that the author missed when fixing things. This is exactly what happened for Minecraft, or rather Bukkit. Which ever the problem is caused by. It should be the players duty to inform higher-ups of the glitch, not the other way around, as you would suggest. I'm not saying anyone is at fault here, but please do not blame any higher-ups for not fixing the problem before the community knew of it. Basically, it's 30 community players versus 5 higher ups. By logic, the community will find out quicker than we will, and we then rely on the community to inform us so we can make swift repairs and avoid mass-abuse, such as this incident brought out.

Birdman · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 3:08 pm

Doldol wrote:

Sloppy wrote:

Kharn wrote:

Also 600 posts.

Yolo

* YOGSPO

Unless your posts get deleted below 600, or you make a new account

Kharn · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 3:31 pm

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to fix said exploit then leave it up to the trust of members or even guests?
Other servers don't have this problem, why not make it a non issue instead of making examples out of people?

In order for us to fix said exploits, we need to be aware of them.
We then rely on the playerbase, which actively plays the game in legitimate ways, to tell us about these exploits.
I personally spend my time building in creative mode. This makes it so I'm not too aware of issues outside of my "zone".
Therefore, I trust our members to tell us about these issues so we can avoid further abuse through fixing them. The nether portal bug was apparantly been evident since mid 1.4, which is rather shocking. Fairly few had told Mojang, who couldn't reproduce it and therefore didn't view it as a bug, but rather as a client-sided issue. Same goes for us. If noone tells us - we can't make sure to fix them.
Now that someone did inform us of the glitch, we managed to fix it - I hope.

We don't want to make it a non issue nor to deliberately make examples out of people. All of these incidents have been results of poor users who have decided to avoid informing higher-ups on the server about the issue, and rather use it to their own advantage. Because of their own decisions, they're being made examples of.

I'll try to end my novels here now, but I'm just asking people to please tell us about these bugs/glitches. That way noone has to be made a bad example of...

well my point is that the higher-ups had known about the issue since the night before the example was made, but didn't fix it until it was too late and someone had exploited it. it shouldn't take some one breaking a rule too prevent it, it should be prevented to begin with.

Wether or not the higher-ups knew about the glitch before the server went down for repairs, I don't know.
The fact that someone continued to abuse the exploit, even after it was publicly made an exploit and a bannable offence (which it is an always will be), is what got them banned. I'm going to go as far as to guess you're not familiar with coding. When someone codes something, there may be bugs that the author missed when fixing things. This is exactly what happened for Minecraft, or rather Bukkit. Which ever the problem is caused by. It should be the players duty to inform higher-ups of the glitch, not the other way around, as you would suggest. I'm not saying anyone is at fault here, but please do not blame any higher-ups for not fixing the problem before the community knew of it. Basically, it's 30 community players versus 5 higher ups. By logic, the community will find out quicker than we will, and we then rely on the community to inform us so we can make swift repairs and avoid mass-abuse, such as this incident brought out.

And its the duty of every member to tell a higher-up that a problem has been found, NOT to sit back and use it knowing your exploiting something. Or to curse out those Higher-Ups when your caught using the exploit and then go and make 2 player complaints because you think your above the rules, when you yelled and cursed the higher-up's and then pretend like your ignorant of what you did ....That....Is where the entire foot came stomping down. And its why this thread exists and why I spent the rest of the evening last night wishing I had a pack of Smokes.

pretzL · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 3:39 pm

Kharn wrote:

And its the duty of every member to tell a higher-up that a problem has been found, NOT to sit back and use it knowing your exploiting something. Or to curse out those Higher-Ups when your caught using the exploit and then go and make 2 player complaints because you think your above the rules, when you yelled and cursed the higher-up's and then pretend like your ignorant of what you did ....That....Is where the entire foot came stomping down. And its why this thread exists and why I spent the rest of the evening last night wishing I had a pack of Smokes.

<3 you.
exactly what I mean.
I feel bad for you having to deal with this for an entire network. I've yet to see it outside of the Minecraft server and I was a nerve-wreck after most of this arguement...

Wartheft · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 3:58 pm

Long story short, way too many people are just plain stupid. Does anyone have any common sense anymore?

SOCASH · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2013 6:13 pm

Kharn wrote:

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

pretzL wrote:

SOCASH wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to fix said exploit then leave it up to the trust of members or even guests?
Other servers don't have this problem, why not make it a non issue instead of making examples out of people?

In order for us to fix said exploits, we need to be aware of them.
We then rely on the playerbase, which actively plays the game in legitimate ways, to tell us about these exploits.
I personally spend my time building in creative mode. This makes it so I'm not too aware of issues outside of my "zone".
Therefore, I trust our members to tell us about these issues so we can avoid further abuse through fixing them. The nether portal bug was apparantly been evident since mid 1.4, which is rather shocking. Fairly few had told Mojang, who couldn't reproduce it and therefore didn't view it as a bug, but rather as a client-sided issue. Same goes for us. If noone tells us - we can't make sure to fix them.
Now that someone did inform us of the glitch, we managed to fix it - I hope.

We don't want to make it a non issue nor to deliberately make examples out of people. All of these incidents have been results of poor users who have decided to avoid informing higher-ups on the server about the issue, and rather use it to their own advantage. Because of their own decisions, they're being made examples of.

I'll try to end my novels here now, but I'm just asking people to please tell us about these bugs/glitches. That way noone has to be made a bad example of...

well my point is that the higher-ups had known about the issue since the night before the example was made, but didn't fix it until it was too late and someone had exploited it. it shouldn't take some one breaking a rule too prevent it, it should be prevented to begin with.

Wether or not the higher-ups knew about the glitch before the server went down for repairs, I don't know.
The fact that someone continued to abuse the exploit, even after it was publicly made an exploit and a bannable offence (which it is an always will be), is what got them banned. I'm going to go as far as to guess you're not familiar with coding. When someone codes something, there may be bugs that the author missed when fixing things. This is exactly what happened for Minecraft, or rather Bukkit. Which ever the problem is caused by. It should be the players duty to inform higher-ups of the glitch, not the other way around, as you would suggest. I'm not saying anyone is at fault here, but please do not blame any higher-ups for not fixing the problem before the community knew of it. Basically, it's 30 community players versus 5 higher ups. By logic, the community will find out quicker than we will, and we then rely on the community to inform us so we can make swift repairs and avoid mass-abuse, such as this incident brought out.

And its the duty of every member to tell a higher-up that a problem has been found, NOT to sit back and use it knowing your exploiting something. Or to curse out those Higher-Ups when your caught using the exploit and then go and make 2 player complaints because you think your above the rules, when you yelled and cursed the higher-up's and then pretend like your ignorant of what you did ....That....Is where the entire foot came stomping down. And its why this thread exists and why I spent the rest of the evening last night wishing I had a pack of Smokes.

i think there is a misunderstanding here.
I'm not trying to validate anyone's exploits committed in the minecraft server, or any server for that matter.
Its against the rules, and we know what the punishment is for that.
my only point was that why wouldn't the server just be shut down so high admins can fix this issue? This was a known glitch before this Rice&Noodle incident, and another member of EgN had even banned himself for exploiting it before. The secret was out, it should be assumed the server was compromised until the exploit was fixed. Why trust that not only members of EgN will obey the rules, but even guests?
People will always cheat, and i feel its naive of a admin to expect "the best" in everyone who played on a server.
its self defeating, and the real solution is removing the bug/glitch.
And while yes, it is the responsibility of EgN players to help report bugs they discover on their own, these responsibilities lie more heavily on those who are intrusted to run the server.
To make a server great as we all want, an admin must stay up to date on issues, updates and of course: exploits.
Admins should be spending their time doing at least minimal research on topics such as this, so that way we can remain competitive and enjoyable as a server and as a clan.

if this server was in some sort of alpha or beta stage played only by trusted EgN members the 30v5 argument might be valid, but in a server that has be up and running for quite some time now, this is a flawed assumption. people will always cheat, that is a huge reason why admins partly exist: to not only run the server, punish those who break rules, but to prevent future events of abuse.

Again i am not defending anyone here, nor am i trying to validate any one person's actions, i am simply stating there is a serious defect with the way things are run that has been exposed by this situation coming to light.

pretzL · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2013 4:51 am

SOCASH wrote:

i think there is a misunderstanding here.
I'm not trying to validate anyone's exploits committed in the minecraft server, or any server for that matter.
Its against the rules, and we know what the punishment is for that.
my only point was that why wouldn't the server just be shut down so high admins can fix this issue? This was a known glitch before this Rice&Noodle incident, and another member of EgN had even banned himself for exploiting it before. The secret was out, it should be assumed the server was compromised until the exploit was fixed. Why trust that not only members of EgN will obey the rules, but even guests?
People will always cheat, and i feel its naive of a admin to expect "the best" in everyone who played on a server.
its self defeating, and the real solution is removing the bug/glitch.
And while yes, it is the responsibility of EgN players to help report bugs they discover on their own, these responsibilities lie more heavily on those who are intrusted to run the server.
To make a server great as we all want, an admin must stay up to date on issues, updates and of course: exploits.
Admins should be spending their time doing at least minimal research on topics such as this, so that way we can remain competitive and enjoyable as a server and as a clan.

if this server was in some sort of alpha or beta stage played only by trusted EgN members the 30v5 argument might be valid, but in a server that has be up and running for quite some time now, this is a flawed assumption. people will always cheat, that is a huge reason why admins partly exist: to not only run the server, punish those who break rules, but to prevent future events of abuse.

Again i am not defending anyone here, nor am i trying to validate any one person's actions, i am simply stating there is a serious defect with the way things are run that has been exposed by this situation coming to light.

You and I already discussed this in TS3, and I somewhat understood your point, but now you're contradicting yourself again :r
How can the administration of a server fix a bug before we even know it's a bug or an exploit for that matter?
We then rely on the better part of the server to aid us in fixing them by first letting us know they exist.
Minecraft is full of exploits - exploits we can't effectively nor permanently fix. This isn't our fault, but rather Mojangs fault.

We can't spend our time googling for every last issue in Minecraft, simply because an open database of such doesn't exist. If we try to Google say "current exploits in minecraft", we'll be issued with a full list of issues already solved. That way, it's essentially impossible to find a fix for a problem before we know what the problem is and if it is even present on our server. This is where the community comes in and the 30v5 arguement. The EgNCraft higher-ups rely on the community to tell us about exploits, issues and bugs. I know from this incident that that doesn't really happen until it's gone on for a while...

As for the Rice&Noodle issue. I believe wholly that he was justifiably banned. Wether or not that ban should be permanent is up to Stevie ultimately, but I believe it should be shortened. However, when the exploit was first discovered, none of us higher ups were able to reproduce it. By the time we asked the original person to tell us about it, to reproduce it, that person more or less refused from what I gathered. Rice&Noodle then heard of the exploit, knowing it was an exploit (clearly stated in our rules that is against the rules), and chose to abuse it and tell us nothing about the glitch. For his actions, he was banned. Yes, the server should have gone down for repairs as soon as the glitch became known. However, considering we couldn't re-produce the exploit, we didn't see how it was a problem for the entire server, but rather for a specific client, or a hacked client for that matter.
When we finally were able to see that it actually existed, the server went down for repairs.

I apologize on behalf of the higher-ups for the handling of this situation. However, I do believe they did everything right. Theere is noone at fault, nobody did anything blame-worthy. This was an un-needed issue, and I will personally search various forums and underground bug-reports to find such issues before they become evident.

Thank you for reading my novels <3

RiceOrNoodle · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2013 9:06 am

I just love how this is all a bunch of drama about me. Yeah i duplicated some blocks. I admitted it. I thought a permanent ban was uneccesary. I regret making my decision but i don't feel i should be bullied by it. Everyone makes mistakes. My first mistake in this clan in 6 years and I don't get a second chance. I'm sorry but grow up. I apologize to Chubby for making a report on her but not Stevie. I have my reasons. Glad to see no forgiveness from anyone in the clan for my actions. This has changed a lot from an understanding family. Also trying to make me give out my word when i promised I wouldn't. Sorry Kharn but I'm a man of my word, I told him a wouldn't tell anyone. I wont..
and that's not a street code thing. Now punishing someone because they wont rat on a friend... come on...

Also thank you for not just coming to me to discuss this Kharn "without yelling" would of been nice to have a mature adult conversation. Not start a 50 thread post making me look like a douche. Like were all on Facebook or something..

Sorry to everyone I have offended. Did not want to start this drama..

Cheers

RiceOrNoodle..

Siberiac · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2013 9:40 am

RiceOrNoodle wrote:

Not start a 50 thread post making me look like a douche. Like were all on Facebook or something..

Sorry to everyone I have offended. Did not want to start this drama..

Cheers

RiceOrNoodle..

1. 50 post thread*
2. We've never been lenient in hacking/glitching.
3. You posting this to lash back is furthering the drama.
~ Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

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