Okay heres another thread about sprays

Tricky · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:50 pm

It’s intriguing to see people argue about this right after the Admin meeting. If you had such strong feelings about this current rule why not come to the one place that we allow rule changes. It’s only been a month since the last admin meeting ?.
@GameAdmins
Also it won’t get rewritten unless majority of our admins want it to be changed during the next admin meeting or if Matt feels it needs changing. @Steezy

Central · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:56 pm

Terminator wrote:

Central wrote:

Scenario 3 (what matt said):
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map, and Link has a spray which he wants to know if it's disturbing or not so he messages admin chat asking any admin in the server if they find the spray disturbing, or if they would allow it in server. That there, makes it seem that his intentions were exactly to add a spray which is disturbing, but asking if it disturbs the admins to see if he can have the spray in the server without having to be warned to remove the spray. An admin there has the right, again to ask him to change it because he knows that it most likely will disturb someone, and maybe that's what his intentions were, but intentionally trying to get away with having a disturbing spray on in server.

if a person asks if his spray is disturbing it isn't always on purpose just to get away with a disturbing spray.
some people might actually be concerned about their spray, or if they just changed the spray and came back, asking if they have an acceptable spray now. dont always need to see the bad things in a person

But wouldn't you actually think if they are asking if it's disturbing, that it actually is disturbing? Why ask if it's disturbing if it's not if you know what I mean?

Yiggles Moto · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:01 pm

Yiggles Moto wrote:

Can you help me understand why you are so adamant and why you need so badly to have some half naked lady/ass as your spray?
I truly don't understand why you (and others) feel like you need these types of sprays so much you are willing to debate endlessly to use it on our server.

I get that "I like it" is totally appropriate, but if I used a spray like this that was obviously sexual in nature, and was told to change it I'd totally understand why. I wouldn't try to say my spray is something that it isn't.

Reposting this so it doesn't get lost on the last page.

Terminator · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:04 pm

Central wrote:

But wouldn't you actually think if they are asking if it's disturbing, that it actually is disturbing? Why ask if it's disturbing if it's not if you know what I mean?

as said....the "disturbing" part goes from player to player, something not disturbing for him might be disturbing for others. so asking admins if it is disturbing could already help since they (should) give a pretty good opinion on "disturbing". like, no nudity or gore and so on. which will exclude multiple categories for his spray and a higher chance of having an acceptable spray. u know what i mean?

Mr.GoldGames · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:05 pm

Tricky wrote:

It’s intriguing to see people argue about this right after the Admin meeting. If you had such strong feelings about this current rule why not come to the one place that we allow rule changes. It’s only been a month since the last admin meeting ?.

Also it won’t get rewritten unless majority of our admins want it to be changed during the next admin meeting or if Matt feels it needs changing.

Nick Cage · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:58 pm

Central wrote:

I'm pretty sure Matt had covered everything about the rule...

mattlikespie wrote:

I don't care how vague the rule is or what you think it should mean, we're looking at the rule right now. And right now, yes, disturbing is a many sided word. It varies person to person. What's disturbing to you may not be disturbing to me, and vice versa. So yes, this is 100% admin discretion. There is no clear set "THIS IS DISTURBING" handbook you can pick up with pretty pictures and examples. Disrupting gameplay, same damn thing. If a spray is bad enough where somebody has to say something about it in the chat and it derails the entirety of the round, yea, then it's disturbing. Only takes 1 person to find a spray offensive/disturbing for it to need to be changed. I don't care about your opinion of it, just have the player change the damn spray. If 1 admin finds it disturbing, change the damn spray, I don't give a flying flip what rank you are or how strong of an opinion you have.

On the other hand, I will not tolerate admins who cannot work together to administrate the server. I've had to explain this countless times and all of you have cited, mind you, correct, quotations from Staff+ elaborating the rule. Just think for once...just because it doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it doesn't bother anyone else. Why do you ban people for saying the n word? 95% of the people who play JB don't have a problem with the use of the word. But there are the other 5% who do get offended by it. There's nothing lost by banning the word other than the waste of a slot by the troll who came online to use foul language in the first place. But we gain more by providing a gaming environment EVERYONE can be comfortable in. People do not come to Jailbreak to be insulted or disrespected, they come to play Jailbreak.

A simple rule of thumb? If a player literally has to ask you, "Is my spray okay?" or "Does my spray break the rules?" or better yet, "Is my spray disturbing?" Then the answer is yes to all three. "Discretion" does NOT mean voicing your opinion on a manner and bending rules to match your way of thinking. Discretion means you have the freedom to enforce the rules for the betterment of the server. If there is room to question that a spray can be disturbing, then your opinion is irrelevant - the spray can be interpreted as disturbing, and if you are truly as an admin looking out for the betterment of the server, you will make the player change that spray. Back to the questions. If a player asks you "Is my spray disturbing?" Then the only reason they are asking is because they know it can be disturbing. And I am almost certain these "multiple" admins did not simply out of their own will message Steezy and said "Hey man, nice spray, it's not disturbing btw lol just in case anyone asks." as soon as he joined. So Steezy either asked "Is my spray okay?" - which we just determined then no, it's not okay - or, someone found it disturbing (on multiple occasions) and the admins chose to do nothing because they "disagreed," until Birthstone had the balls to actually follow the rules and ban him for not changing it when asked, because Birthstone was looking out for the server, for the 5%. People do not come to Jailbreak to watch child porn, or female genitalia, or naked dudes, they come to play Jailbreak.

In regards to the appeal - the ban is past, so we'll leave it at that.

If you anyone cares to question, debate, comment, etc. on my reply, then make a new thread or find me separately. This is locked. In the future, please don't post or argue this shit on a ban appeal...

Here is three scenarios of how it can go down with this rule (most likely will be the same as what matt said):

Scenario 1
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map and Link has a spray which submittingly to my eyes, does not disturb me whatsoever, in fact I like the view of some girls ass. Smiley sends a message in admin chat saying it disturbs her, and just her, no one else complains. I, as an admin have to ask that person to change their spray. Normally I'd say something like "Link, please change your spray by the end of this current round" and if hasn't changed it (they'd have to rejoin for it to change in-server), there would result in a kick. If he came back and had the same spray, then results in a ban. Just because I as an admin didn't find it disturbing, there will always be at least one person that will

Scenario 2
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map, and Link has a spray which I personally, as an admin but not the highest ranking admin in the server finds the spray disturbing, I have the right, and it is my duty as an admin without any input from the other admins no matter if they find it disturbing or does not, to ask Link to change his spray, and again following the appropriate order of operations. Warn > Kick > Ban.

Scenario 3 (what matt said):
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map, and Link has a spray which he wants to know if it's disturbing or not so he messages admin chat asking any admin in the server if they find the spray disturbing, or if they would allow it in server. That there, makes it seem that his intentions were exactly to add a spray which is disturbing, but asking if it disturbs the admins to see if he can have the spray in the server without having to be warned to remove the spray. An admin there has the right, again to ask him to change it because he knows that it most likely will disturb someone, and maybe that's what his intentions were, but intentionally trying to get away with having a disturbing spray on in server.

If admins are saying 'well I do not find it disturbing, and as the highest ranking admin in the server, I deem it not disturbing', then which admin that is saying that, really shouldn't be an admin if they're not going to enforce the rules, because despite being the highest ranking on in the server, you still have the duty to enforce it the way it should be enforced, not how you want it to be enforced.

Sure, the rule potentially could be more in-depth by a little to elaborate that, but are you going to ask that for every rule because it confuses you? Ask an admin in server for rule clarifications or any misconceptions that you may have in server or make a topic on the forum (discussion not argumentative or targetting) and in it's appropriate section as you're doing right here for the second attempt.

Disturbing sprays could be anything, as long as someone finds it disturbing to them, admins have the right to ask them to change it and should ask them to change it.

Don't forget, in the server we have a range of an audience in the server, ranging from the age of 11 all the way up to 30, maybe even higher. So you have to count in the fact should an 11 year old be seeing nudity or anything that disturbs them more in the server? They'll just find it disturbing, and will most likely leave if nothing to be done about the spray.

All scenarios take place on Razor, 10/10
real gamers rise up.

Y S0 S3R10US · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:05 pm

Spoiler: Show

Nick Cage wrote:

Central wrote:

I'm pretty sure Matt had covered everything about the rule...

mattlikespie wrote:

I don't care how vague the rule is or what you think it should mean, we're looking at the rule right now. And right now, yes, disturbing is a many sided word. It varies person to person. What's disturbing to you may not be disturbing to me, and vice versa. So yes, this is 100% admin discretion. There is no clear set "THIS IS DISTURBING" handbook you can pick up with pretty pictures and examples. Disrupting gameplay, same damn thing. If a spray is bad enough where somebody has to say something about it in the chat and it derails the entirety of the round, yea, then it's disturbing. Only takes 1 person to find a spray offensive/disturbing for it to need to be changed. I don't care about your opinion of it, just have the player change the damn spray. If 1 admin finds it disturbing, change the damn spray, I don't give a flying flip what rank you are or how strong of an opinion you have.

On the other hand, I will not tolerate admins who cannot work together to administrate the server. I've had to explain this countless times and all of you have cited, mind you, correct, quotations from Staff+ elaborating the rule. Just think for once...just because it doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it doesn't bother anyone else. Why do you ban people for saying the n word? 95% of the people who play JB don't have a problem with the use of the word. But there are the other 5% who do get offended by it. There's nothing lost by banning the word other than the waste of a slot by the troll who came online to use foul language in the first place. But we gain more by providing a gaming environment EVERYONE can be comfortable in. People do not come to Jailbreak to be insulted or disrespected, they come to play Jailbreak.

A simple rule of thumb? If a player literally has to ask you, "Is my spray okay?" or "Does my spray break the rules?" or better yet, "Is my spray disturbing?" Then the answer is yes to all three. "Discretion" does NOT mean voicing your opinion on a manner and bending rules to match your way of thinking. Discretion means you have the freedom to enforce the rules for the betterment of the server. If there is room to question that a spray can be disturbing, then your opinion is irrelevant - the spray can be interpreted as disturbing, and if you are truly as an admin looking out for the betterment of the server, you will make the player change that spray. Back to the questions. If a player asks you "Is my spray disturbing?" Then the only reason they are asking is because they know it can be disturbing. And I am almost certain these "multiple" admins did not simply out of their own will message Steezy and said "Hey man, nice spray, it's not disturbing btw lol just in case anyone asks." as soon as he joined. So Steezy either asked "Is my spray okay?" - which we just determined then no, it's not okay - or, someone found it disturbing (on multiple occasions) and the admins chose to do nothing because they "disagreed," until Birthstone had the balls to actually follow the rules and ban him for not changing it when asked, because Birthstone was looking out for the server, for the 5%. People do not come to Jailbreak to watch child porn, or female genitalia, or naked dudes, they come to play Jailbreak.

In regards to the appeal - the ban is past, so we'll leave it at that.

If you anyone cares to question, debate, comment, etc. on my reply, then make a new thread or find me separately. This is locked. In the future, please don't post or argue this shit on a ban appeal...

Here is three scenarios of how it can go down with this rule (most likely will be the same as what matt said):

Scenario 1
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map and Link has a spray which submittingly to my eyes, does not disturb me whatsoever, in fact I like the view of some girls ass. Smiley sends a message in admin chat saying it disturbs her, and just her, no one else complains. I, as an admin have to ask that person to change their spray. Normally I'd say something like "Link, please change your spray by the end of this current round" and if hasn't changed it (they'd have to rejoin for it to change in-server), there would result in a kick. If he came back and had the same spray, then results in a ban. Just because I as an admin didn't find it disturbing, there will always be at least one person that will

Scenario 2
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map, and Link has a spray which I personally, as an admin but not the highest ranking admin in the server finds the spray disturbing, I have the right, and it is my duty as an admin without any input from the other admins no matter if they find it disturbing or does not, to ask Link to change his spray, and again following the appropriate order of operations. Warn > Kick > Ban.

Scenario 3 (what matt said):
We're playing ba_jail_electric_razor_v6 map, and Link has a spray which he wants to know if it's disturbing or not so he messages admin chat asking any admin in the server if they find the spray disturbing, or if they would allow it in server. That there, makes it seem that his intentions were exactly to add a spray which is disturbing, but asking if it disturbs the admins to see if he can have the spray in the server without having to be warned to remove the spray. An admin there has the right, again to ask him to change it because he knows that it most likely will disturb someone, and maybe that's what his intentions were, but intentionally trying to get away with having a disturbing spray on in server.

If admins are saying 'well I do not find it disturbing, and as the highest ranking admin in the server, I deem it not disturbing', then which admin that is saying that, really shouldn't be an admin if they're not going to enforce the rules, because despite being the highest ranking on in the server, you still have the duty to enforce it the way it should be enforced, not how you want it to be enforced.

Sure, the rule potentially could be more in-depth by a little to elaborate that, but are you going to ask that for every rule because it confuses you? Ask an admin in server for rule clarifications or any misconceptions that you may have in server or make a topic on the forum (discussion not argumentative or targetting) and in it's appropriate section as you're doing right here for the second attempt.

Disturbing sprays could be anything, as long as someone finds it disturbing to them, admins have the right to ask them to change it and should ask them to change it.

Don't forget, in the server we have a range of an audience in the server, ranging from the age of 11 all the way up to 30, maybe even higher. So you have to count in the fact should an 11 year old be seeing nudity or anything that disturbs them more in the server? They'll just find it disturbing, and will most likely leave if nothing to be done about the spray.

All scenarios take place on Razor, 10/10
real gamers rise up.

North · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:25 pm

hey guys someone said my spray wasn’t ok and an admin told me to change it so I decided to be a cunt and not change it cause I wanna be an asshole

Stop trying. If an admin tells you to change your spray fucking do it and stop whining.

Needy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:59 pm

Once again, the original intent of wording of the no disturbing sprays was used as a blanket to cover more ground than, as the previous rule had stated, just porn & gore. And I have, and will say it plenty more times after but it truly doesn't take a genius to class a (half) naked woman under disturbing, not that it will to all, but it still falls under the simple wording of. Anything that qualifies as disturbing could go as far as sprays containing gore, graphic material, and/or pornographic imagery of any nature (e.g hentai, bloodshed, porn); that includes any hatred towards political beliefs, religion, and/or demographics (but doesn't occur as often).

Take it as a NSFL and/or NSFW value.

Simple said, rules won't change (as far as it has been introduced).

Xanderian · **Posted:** Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:05 pm

Just going to leave this here: viewtopic.php?f=162&t=30216.

This ban appeal was about 4 months ago. The spray rule hasn't changed much since then. That was a spray that people had no issue with, but an admin certain did. No doubt, under the rules even back then, the individual should have been asked to change their spray. The admin did just that and got reprimanded despite doing what they were supposed to under the rules.

Now, I know, the circumstances might be seen as different, because people felt that the admin in question was just being homophobic (or even racist). But even if he was, the way that it is being explained here, regardless of the reason someone has for being uncomfortable with a spray, it must be changed.

So why isn't this always the case? I see disagreements now on how the spray rule should be enforced, and I saw disagreements back then. This always happens when rules are left ambiguous. It's the same reason why rules stated on the forums and not in !rules are not to be enforced (as it's always been). You cannot expect all admins to have the same interpretation of a rule, even with admin meetings in place. What about the newer admins who haven't been to the admin meeting? Or, what about the admin that hasn't seen the way it's "supposed" to be interpreted on the forums? Do you expect them to somehow figure it out on their own?

What about the case of that link? That admin followed the procedure for that rule correctly, but got reprimanded because a higher ranking admin (who was not there at the time), decided that the spray was not disturbing. So how far should the rule be taken?

I don't mind seeing the rule left open, but it needs to be worded in a way that people understand it. It needs to be worded so people know that if anyone finds their spray disturbing, it needs to be changed. Hell, you can word it like that if you need to. "A spray that anyone deems to be disturbing must be changed." That clearly states the rule, and the way it needs to be handled.

No more of this !rules versus forums bullshit. If you have to explain your rule in great detail on the forums in order for people to understand it, it needs to be changed. If you want an admin to enforce rules a certain way, there's a section in !rules just for admins. Use it. If you can't find a way to word the rule in !rules so that way people understand it, it's probably too complicated of a rule to begin with. However, if you expect to have an admin follow a certain procedure for doing things, but can't even put in the effort to put it in the !rules or even the FAQ at least, then perhaps someone else should be staff+ instead.

Just my $0.02.

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