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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:23 am 
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Cyclops wrote:
Corvus wrote:
Doldol wrote:
When everyone participating in this discussion chills down and actually considers all factors and nicely formulates their full opinion, deducted from facts, while considering all angles. AKA "Just think about it for a sec." =]

At least if that's at all possible!?


Instead of everyone learning the facts from others and only hearing one side, why don't you give us the facts? All we've done is talk behind your back, and say you've made a grave mistake. Why don't you tell us YOUR side? Most of us see you as the bad guy right now. As the leader, that is NOT a good thing. Help us out, Doldol. Give us your side. Please.



I'd love to hear his reasons why


I do think I already gave them in the OP, right? Those are the official reasons for his demotion, coming from the higher-ups, which are headed by yours truly, so those are my reasons.

I guess I could add this (since some events did transpire after the OP): Take note that he was demoted to Staff, we didn't kick him out of EgN or even a position of leadership in EgN, but he simply did not want Staff (Aka he didn't get kicked out, he just wasn't content with Staff.).

& As to his TeamSpeak ban, he assigned individual permissions to himself so that he negated bans and could become TS Server admin whenever he wanted (which he did after getting demoted), that's still admin abuse & a major security issue.

I do wonder, why the heck did he even need those permissions assigned to himself in the first place!? I didn't even have those permissions before, now I do, since that appeared to be clearly necessary after that debacle.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:56 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:16 am 
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Doldol wrote:
I do think I already gave them in the OP, right? Those are the official reasons for his demotion, coming from the higher-ups, which are headed by yours truly, so those are my reasons.

I guess I could add this (since some events did transpire after the OP): Take note that he was demoted to Staff, we didn't kick him out of EgN or even a position of leadership in EgN, but he simply did not want Staff (Aka he didn't get kicked out, he just wasn't content with Staff.).

& As to his TeamSpeak ban, he assigned individual permissions to himself so that he negated bans and could become TS Server admin whenever he wanted (which he did after getting demoted), that's still admin abuse & a major security issue.

I do wonder, why the heck did he even need those permissions assigned to himself in the first place!? I didn't even have those permissions before, now I do, since that appeared to be clearly necessary after that debacle.

The reasons you gave in the OP were not from the higher-ups, they are from you. It has been made clear both in the meeting we had and from what the higher ups have said since it that none of them agree with you or your reasons for my demotion. Continuing to say that they're the "higher-ups" decisions will just further dig the hole you've already dug yourself. When your higher ups are even posting on this post saying that it is solely your decision and that they disagree with you you have the tenacity to delete their posts, saying that there needs to be "unison" between the higher ups. As far as anyone can tell you're the only one who is not joining in the unison, as clearly you're the only one with a different opinion than your higher ups.

As to what actually happened in the meeting, no, I was not demoted to Staff. I was brought into the meeting we had Saturday and given 3 options: Be a Staff, be a Veteran, be a Supporter. I told you I'm either going to be an Advisor or a Supporter, because there is no legitimate reason warranting a demotion as has been made clear to you by both your higher ups and now the members of your community.

I assigned those permissions to myself months ago so that I could go undercover in a different channel at that time to listen to a couple of people who weren't necessarily supposed to be there. The perms were so I could give myself my groups back afterwards. I never removed such perms as I didn't necessarily have reason to. This wouldn't even have been an issue if you would've have decided to be a complete dickhead during the meeting. Fed up with the fact that your higher ups disagreed with you, as they still do, you thought it would be absolutely wonderful to say "Oh, this is a higher up meeting, and you're not a higher up anymore, bye," remove my ranks, then move me out. As far as that moment was concerned I still was one as your higher ups did not agree with (and still don't agree with) my demotion. This is a decision you have made entirely on your own without consulting your higher ups. Hell, you actually didn't want to consult them at all knowing they wouldn't agree with you. What kind of leadership decision is that? Furthermore, you literally said word for word to one of your staff members that you don't care about his opinion, and that you don't care about the opinions of your staff. You've even said twice now that your members are stupid. You could also have used the logical way of thinking and have just removed the permissions from me instead of banning me 3 times now. I'll also point out I didn't have perms to ignore bans. The times I've been unbanned were by a higher up, not myself.

Any reasons you may have for my demotion are entirely outweighed by the fact that you're obviously a horrible leader for this community. This is something that myself, the other higher ups, and several members have realized for months now. You want to know why we never mentioned it? It's not like we really get a choice on who our leader is. You get to sit up there with all these perms that we can't override. Then the moment someone disagrees with you you use those abilities to get your way like the little child you are. If you actually cared about the community you were leading you'd actually listen to what they have to say instead of making a decision entirely on your own and stonewalling the rest of the community.
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<17:26:05> "Wartheft": Sneakin into mah channel
<17:26:11> "Sibblet": xD
<17:26:12> "Wartheft": Snatchin my fedoras up
<17:26:21> "Sibblet": I ate your fedoras, my apologies
<17:26:21> "Wartheft": I see how it be
<17:26:26> "Wartheft": YOU WHAT
<17:26:29> "Wartheft": Q.Q
<17:26:30> "Sibblet": NOTHING
<17:26:32> "Sibblet": >_>
<17:26:34> "Sibblet": <_<


<20:57:43> "GirlWithAGun": (ง'̀-'́)ง fight me
<20:58:06> "Wartheft": Q('.'Q) Let's go
<20:58:23> "GirlWithAGun": lol
<20:58:33> "Wartheft": (o.o)O=('.'Q) Take that
<20:59:35> "GirlWithAGun": ow D:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:54 am 
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My reply (in which I tried to stay objective, but admittedly wasn't 100%) was to fill the community in on what transpired, you and me bickering on the forums would have no purpose but to create drama, especially if you have to resort to personal attacks ("like the little child you are" - Wartheft). Open forum is always cool & welcomed by me as long as it's conducted in a civilised manner, but since that can't happen:

/discussion Wartheft (Please don't push this to a forum ban.)
[Leaving the topic open so others can reply, incase they do have something constructive to add.]
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:59 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:39 am 
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Since logic has been brought up by Doldol as well as others, I will make my point with logic, reasoning, and textual proof.

Let's start by looking at the reason for the demote provided by Doldol in the OP.

Doldol wrote:
While possessing great qualities, it has been a growing issue that he has a tendency to not follow the collective decision by EgN's higher-ups, as well as complaining about what he sees as negative in EgN to non-higherups. Instead of constructively working on resolving issues with the higher-ups. He has been approached and even warned about this growing issue before, his failure to listen to this critique inexorably led to this demotion. (Declined Staff)


1. "it has been a growing issue that he has a tendency to not follow the collective decision by EgN's higher-ups"

Collective refers to the entirety of the staff. I say that, because I have spoken to the staff+ many times in the past, and not once was there ever any mention of Wartheft going against a decision. To go along with that, none of them ever had any anger or resentment towards Wartheft. I know this because at one point I was good friends with some of them.

2. "as well as complaining about what he sees as negative in EgN to non-higherups"

As you have mentioned in the past, this is a community. As a community, I see nothing wrong with "non-higherups" knowing what the problems in the community are. Not only do I see it as our right, but I see it as our privilege. Many of us were given administrative powers because we have proven trustworthy for them. Not only that, but we were voted upon and accepted into the community. So for you to say that him telling us what problems EgN is facing seems quite unreasonable, as there is no reason to hide a problem that we might be able to help fix anyways.

3. "Instead of constructively working on resolving issues with the higher-ups"

From my past talks with him and others, it was evident to me he disapproved of you. The reason he did not do anything, from what I can tell, is that he didn't want to start a battle he had no chance of winning. At the moment, you have control over EgN. Even if Staff+ are supposed to have that same power, you still have that power yourself. The only difference is, you decide who becomes staff+, and who loses staff+. Not the higher-ups, not the Co-Leaders, but the leader. You. So, he didn't tell you that you were bad at leading because, frankly, he has no nice way to say it. If he told you, all he'd do is cause drama. So, he let you have some room to do your job. But, to say he didn't help the higher-ups as a collective doesn't exactly apply. Most of what he does do is administrate the forums, make sure the administrators are set up on sourcebans, the forums, and in-game, and to ensure disputes between members, administrators, and regulars, are dealt with in a former, justified, manner. He does that job better than I've seen any higher-up do in the past few years, which is a long time for a gaming community. As for dealing with higher-ups, which you say he failed to do, that's your job, not his. He doesn't have the power to remove Staff+, and even if he did, he's not really supposed to. Who gets kicked from a Staff+ isn't up to him, it's up to you. So I hardly see what improvement he could help facilitate among the staff+ when his job lies elsewhere.

4. "He has been approached and even warned about this growing issue before, his failure to listen to this critique inexorably led to this demotion."

I actually have reason to believe this part is true, but not fully. Despite how truthful this part may be, I still find it illogical for you to demote him over it, as these are all issues that I don't see him being able to improve, nor do I see why he would need to. The job he was given by Kharn, he does a good job at. I know Kharn agrees, and I know the other higher-ups agree, noticeable by the fact that the majority are backing him up. Regardless of any of that, according to your reasons, you approached him about the matter, no doubt to tell him to do his job differently. I see no possible change in how he does his job that could improve anything. Some may argue that him being nicer is an improvement he should make, but I don't see that as possible when we're talking about Wartheft (No offence). Aside from that, he already does his job the way that's required of him.


I would provide more insight, but you have left us nothing else. You say he went against overall decisions, I would love to see examples, and I know the rest would as well. You speak about him like he was a security issue, which I doubt very much so, since he hasn't done anything bad thus far, and has provided his side of the story on that, which you have yet to comment on. Then, you speak about him as though he's done nothing but cause drama as an Advisor, which is ridiculous, as he did most of the work of the staff+ anyways.


Now, do keep in mind that he makes no money out of this. You are not paying him to be an Advisor, so any time he has put forth towards this community is him volunteering because he wanted to help EgN. If he really wanted, he could have left any time, but he didn't, despite it being obvious he dislikes the way things are run. He showed loyalty, and yet you belittled him over what we can all guess is a personal problem.

In conclusion, your reasons for his demote are no long applicable, or based on anything significant. You can provide more reasons, with examples, and in fact I encourage you do, but until you do, you have no logical or reasonable reason to keep him demoted and banned from Teamspeak. For these reasons, I request you unban him immediately until further notice, as well as reinstate him into the position of Advisor. As a man of logic and reason, I don't need to tell you what the reaction of the community will be if you do not.

As a fellow man of reason, I appreciate you taking the time to read this, as well as what others have posted as well. I only hope you make the logical decision in this case.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:47 am 
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At the same time, I do need to mention one thing I saw after reading through one more time. Everyone has mentioned he asked the higher-ups before making the decision in his post, but he did not actually mention that within the post, and therefore did not disclose any information about their involvement except for the fact that Wartheft not "constructively working on resolving issues with the higher-ups." I felt the need to mention that. Not only is that a good thing for Doldol's arguments, but it's also a bad thing. Because of that, it states they had no relevancy in his decision, whether they actually did or not. So that's something that I feel is important considering their job listed in the ranks. So, I feel Doldol has changed the ranks significantly. No matter the method in which this situation is resolved, a meeting should be held as soon as possible to discuss the ranks, and their actual rules, as both Doldol and the community seem to be stepping away from those guidelines.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:18 am 
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Doldol wrote:
/discussion Wartheft (Please don't push this to a forum ban.)


Fucking really? You think he is the one causing drama here?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:19 am 
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<05:09:34> "Wolfie" was removed from server group "Supporter" by "Kharn".
<05:09:39> "Wolfie" was added to server group "Staff" by "Kharn".

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:34 am 
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Wolfie wrote:
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