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Xanderian · **Posted:** Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:06 pm

Pro Hop wrote:

Gr1m0ire wrote:

The whole point of jb is to kill prisoners. If you don't believe that, look at all the games (map or not) that people play, or can play. It's there to kill prisoners and whittle the number of prisoners down to just one. Otherwise, they wouldn't be "death" games.

While rules are there to keep it on as fair of a playing field as possible, every game will have people who might not know how to play it. People have to die once or twice (or many times) to learn how to play it, be it colors, climb, race, simon says, or even fr/lr. Even if there is no favoritism for these games, there will never be fairness in them, because there will always be people who know the rules better, or know how to play the game better, have better reactions, whatever.

The main complaint that I'm seeing from op is that people will not know about that rule when they play, and thus they die because of it. That's too bad for them, since we require all players to read and accept the rule before playing. If they decide not to listen and have issues playing on our servers because of it, that is entirely their fault. If it puts them at a disadvantage because they decided not to read that they can refuse fr/lr, then maybe they need to read the rules they accepted. We are not here to accommodate for people who refuse to read the rules when they join just because it "inconveniences" them.

Now, with that being said, if people want to change the rules, that's fine. That's completely understandable. What's not understandable is to expect us to change the rules because some people here and there decide not to read them because they've played "blah other server" and think our rules are just like theirs.

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

I don't see a rule that says it's unfair to play. All the rule says is that the game can be refused.

The reason the game was made refusable wasn't even because it's unfair. It was made refusable because it's a ridiculously boring game that is overplayed on any server that allows it (hellsgamers used to be a great example of that).

However, because the game is refusable, unlike other servers where the game is ridiculously overused, on EgN it's used maybe once or twice a day, perhaps more on a "lucky" day.

Pro Hop · **Posted:** Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:10 pm

Gr1m0ire wrote:

Pro Hop wrote:

Gr1m0ire wrote:

The whole point of jb is to kill prisoners. If you don't believe that, look at all the games (map or not) that people play, or can play. It's there to kill prisoners and whittle the number of prisoners down to just one. Otherwise, they wouldn't be "death" games.

While rules are there to keep it on as fair of a playing field as possible, every game will have people who might not know how to play it. People have to die once or twice (or many times) to learn how to play it, be it colors, climb, race, simon says, or even fr/lr. Even if there is no favoritism for these games, there will never be fairness in them, because there will always be people who know the rules better, or know how to play the game better, have better reactions, whatever.

The main complaint that I'm seeing from op is that people will not know about that rule when they play, and thus they die because of it. That's too bad for them, since we require all players to read and accept the rule before playing. If they decide not to listen and have issues playing on our servers because of it, that is entirely their fault. If it puts them at a disadvantage because they decided not to read that they can refuse fr/lr, then maybe they need to read the rules they accepted. We are not here to accommodate for people who refuse to read the rules when they join just because it "inconveniences" them.

Now, with that being said, if people want to change the rules, that's fine. That's completely understandable. What's not understandable is to expect us to change the rules because some people here and there decide not to read them because they've played "blah other server" and think our rules are just like theirs.

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

I don't see a rule that says it's unfair to play. All the rule says is that the game can be refused.

The reason the game was made refusable wasn't even because it's unfair. It was made refusable because it's a ridiculously boring game that is overplayed on any server that allows it (hellsgamers used to be a great example of that).

However, because the game is refusable, unlike other servers where the game is ridiculously overused, on EgN it's used maybe once or twice a day, perhaps more on a "lucky" day.

That is not why it was made refusable. It was made refusable because of mic delay.

Uchies · **Posted:** Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:59 pm

Pro Hop wrote:

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

That is not what the rules say at all. The rules say that a game deemed to be unfair by an admin can be refused. FR/LR is already refusable. That rule does not apply at all to FR/LR, it is so special that it has it’s own place in the rules.

Jailbreak is a fucking mod of a decade-and-a-half old game. If we’re to “level the playing field” and give a newcomer as good of a chance to win as someone who plays everyday, then there’s no fucking point in playing... Give players an incentive to strive to be better and get better at the game, not a safe-space for noobs so they can live on without even opening the rules.

Xanderian · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 pm

Pro Hop wrote:

Gr1m0ire wrote:

Pro Hop wrote:

Gr1m0ire wrote:

The whole point of jb is to kill prisoners. If you don't believe that, look at all the games (map or not) that people play, or can play. It's there to kill prisoners and whittle the number of prisoners down to just one. Otherwise, they wouldn't be "death" games.

While rules are there to keep it on as fair of a playing field as possible, every game will have people who might not know how to play it. People have to die once or twice (or many times) to learn how to play it, be it colors, climb, race, simon says, or even fr/lr. Even if there is no favoritism for these games, there will never be fairness in them, because there will always be people who know the rules better, or know how to play the game better, have better reactions, whatever.

The main complaint that I'm seeing from op is that people will not know about that rule when they play, and thus they die because of it. That's too bad for them, since we require all players to read and accept the rule before playing. If they decide not to listen and have issues playing on our servers because of it, that is entirely their fault. If it puts them at a disadvantage because they decided not to read that they can refuse fr/lr, then maybe they need to read the rules they accepted. We are not here to accommodate for people who refuse to read the rules when they join just because it "inconveniences" them.

Now, with that being said, if people want to change the rules, that's fine. That's completely understandable. What's not understandable is to expect us to change the rules because some people here and there decide not to read them because they've played "blah other server" and think our rules are just like theirs.

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

I don't see a rule that says it's unfair to play. All the rule says is that the game can be refused.

The reason the game was made refusable wasn't even because it's unfair. It was made refusable because it's a ridiculously boring game that is overplayed on any server that allows it (hellsgamers used to be a great example of that).

However, because the game is refusable, unlike other servers where the game is ridiculously overused, on EgN it's used maybe once or twice a day, perhaps more on a "lucky" day.

That is not why it was made refusable. It was made refusable because of mic delay.

The more I think about it, the more I realize you're probably right on that one. I swear I remembered the discussions about it saying that it was because it was boring, but it was a long time ago, and I have bad memory. (iirc there was a discussion about it in one of the admin schools back when caboose was running them; since we were going over all the rules and how to apply them n what not)

However, delays are an unfortunately issue that you can't really get away with one way or another. Even text has its delays, since it's an online game. Thus, I don't see much point on removing it on the basis of that. I can understand why you'd want to, but the way I see it, there's just as much chance for somebody to be screwed over by lag/delay through math trivia or a race, as there is for them to be screwed over in FR/LR through delays.

Then again, those are boring and overplayed as well. #BanNonMapGames! #OnlyMapGames! (yes that is a joke btw)

North · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:11 pm

If we banned non-map games then we'd have to get rid of Razor so #BanNonMapGames

Central · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm

Pro Hop wrote:

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

Although I see the point you come across with, it's not the fact that because it's unfair, that it's not played. Like, the highest ranking admin in that server online can deem an LR or so unfair considering it's circumstances, and it's situation.

For example:

Pro Hop is the last T standing, and chooses a Mag4Mag, inside of the big cage with the rules of: Pro hop starts first, unloading his mag onto the opponent, and if lucky, the opponent will have his turn; and do not leave your side of the wall/bars.

This here, can be deemed unfair by the highest ranking admin, and probably any other admin considering here, is definitely unfair. You start first in a Mag4Mag in a somewhat confined space, where because you're starting first, you have such a higher advantage of winning the Mag4Mag, and probably 95% winning and that last 5% goes to the opponent. Though if a further distance was granted, there it would be less unfair, as considering the recoil of an m249 (average, most common weapon used during a Mag4Mag) is quite high, and considering the high distance, it would be more of a chance to dodge the bullets.

It's entirely optional to do this, if the opponent refuses, he's allowed to if the highest ranking admin deems it unfair.

Xanderian · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:28 pm

Central wrote:

Pro Hop wrote:

If one of the rules says it unfair to play then why are we playing it? If a rule states it's a unfair game then just get rid of it.

Although I see the point you come across with, it's not the fact that because it's unfair, that it's not played. Like, the highest ranking admin in that server online can deem an LR or so unfair considering it's circumstances, and it's situation.

For example:

Pro Hop is the last T standing, and chooses a Mag4Mag, inside of the big cage with the rules of: Pro hop starts first, unloading his mag onto the opponent, and if lucky, the opponent will have his turn; and do not leave your side of the wall/bars.

This here, can be deemed unfair by the highest ranking admin, and probably any other admin considering here, is definitely unfair. You start first in a Mag4Mag in a somewhat confined space, where because you're starting first, you have such a higher advantage of winning the Mag4Mag, and probably 95% winning and that last 5% goes to the opponent. Though if a further distance was granted, there it would be less unfair, as considering the recoil of an m249 (average, most common weapon used during a Mag4Mag) is quite high, and considering the high distance, it would be more of a chance to dodge the bullets.

It's entirely optional to do this, if the opponent refuses, he's allowed to if the highest ranking admin deems it unfair.

lol, we probably should have specified: fr/lr means first reaction last reaction, not to become confused with lr, last request.

Link · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:32 pm

I find it nice that we don't have to play that game on the server. What is your idea for changing it? Allow the game and get rid of being able to refuse? A lot of people don't always wanna play those games.

Pro Hop · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Link wrote:

I find it nice that we don't have to play that game on the server. What is your idea for changing it? Allow the game and get rid of being able to refuse? A lot of people don't always wanna play those games.

No my idea is to just not allow it period. Instead of it just being you can refuse it you shouldn't have to play it or instead of not having us play require wardens to tell us it is refusable.

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