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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:04 am 
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Yes, heroin is isolated from a natural plant. My point is that the argument "natural = good" is an illogical one.

Uchies wrote:
Also, kratom is also definitely not "13x more powerful than morphine"...



Yes it is. Here is a source showing that 7-hydroxymitraginine has thirteen times the analgesic potency of morphine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4660513/

Uchies wrote:
Kratom has a plateau effect, in which after a certain amount is ingested, the effects do not increasingly become more powerful. It just so happens that the plateau is incredibly low, and it tops off after mild analgesic and skeletal relaxing effects. You can't just take a bunch of kratom and get high. The only opiate that also acts this way is buprenorphine, but unlike kratom, you can get strong "high" effects from it.


That's not how drugs work. Opioids are opioids. Too much of them and you can overdose. With Kratom, the "plateau" you're talking about is likely the fact that you can't ingest enough of the plant matter to overdose on it. Which is probably true. But again I'm not seeing any scientific sources from you.

Uchies wrote:
I'm just saying don't throw kratom out the window just yet, it worked for me, and works for other people... I swear, sometimes marijuana blinds people in their beliefs. Just because marijuana is good, doesn't mean that other things can't be good too.


Who are you arguing with? I've said none of the things you're talking about. It's great that it works for you, and other people. But when it comes to scientific data, CBD has decades, and Kratom has virtually none. You show me that it works, and how it works, that's one thing, but until then kratom is not much more than other "alternative" (see: unproven) medical treatments.
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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Birthstone wrote:
Uchies wrote:
Kratom has a plateau effect, in which after a certain amount is ingested, the effects do not increasingly become more powerful. It just so happens that the plateau is incredibly low, and it tops off after mild analgesic and skeletal relaxing effects. You can't just take a bunch of kratom and get high. The only opiate that also acts this way is buprenorphine, but unlike kratom, you can get strong "high" effects from it.

That's not how drugs work.


Yes it is.

Quote:
Buprenorphine, as a partial agonist, does not activate mu receptors to the same extent as methadone. Its effects increase until they reach a plateau. At that level, opioid-addicted patients can discontinue opioid use without experiencing withdrawal.

Source: http://atforum.com/2013/02/buprenorphine-vs-methadone/

Kratom works in the same way.

Quote:
– Kratom has a dosing plateau. Taking higher doses of kratom will only increase the effects up to a certain point. This point is DIFFERENT FOR EVERY PERSON. The problem is, if you take more than this point you will feel very sick. If you end up getting yourself sick, the chances of being able to ingest kratom in the future will be pretty slim thanks to the psychosomatic response you created.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR- Dose low and SLOWLY work up the dose if it is your first time with kratom or you are trying a new type. It is best to do this with new batches too as the potency of kratom changes by the season.

Source: https://kratomtea.wordpress.com/2008/01 ... formation/
Quote:
Pleasant effects reach a plateau that won’t get “better” by increasing dosage

Source: https://fit-recovery.com/kratom-and-alcohol/

Obviously it's not something I just pulled out of my ass. And, like I said, no. Kratom is not 13x more powerful than morphine. I'm familiar with that study, it shows that one isolated component of kratom is more powerful mg-to-mg... Kratom is obviously a very complex plant, with several components.
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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:12 am 
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Uchies wrote:
Birthstone wrote:
Uchies wrote:
Kratom has a plateau effect, in which after a certain amount is ingested, the effects do not increasingly become more powerful. It just so happens that the plateau is incredibly low, and it tops off after mild analgesic and skeletal relaxing effects. You can't just take a bunch of kratom and get high. The only opiate that also acts this way is buprenorphine, but unlike kratom, you can get strong "high" effects from it.

That's not how drugs work.


Yes it is.


Prove it lol, opioids don't work that way.

Quote:
Buprenorphine, as a partial agonist, does not activate mu receptors to the same extent as methadone. Its effects increase until they reach a plateau. At that level, opioid-addicted patients can discontinue opioid use without experiencing withdrawal.
Source: http://atforum.com/2013/02/buprenorphine-vs-methadone/

Kratom works in the same way.


No, it doesn't. Both Mitragynine and 7-HMG are selective full agonists of the μ-opioid receptor https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 015-1279-y


Quote:
– Kratom has a dosing plateau. Taking higher doses of kratom will only increase the effects up to a certain point. This point is DIFFERENT FOR EVERY PERSON. The problem is, if you take more than this point you will feel very sick. If you end up getting yourself sick, the chances of being able to ingest kratom in the future will be pretty slim thanks to the psychosomatic response you created.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR- Dose low and SLOWLY work up the dose if it is your first time with kratom or you are trying a new type. It is best to do this with new batches too as the potency of kratom changes by the season.
Source: https://kratomtea.wordpress.com/2008/01 ... formation/
Pleasant effects reach a plateau that won’t get “better” by increasing dosage
Source: https://fit-recovery.com/kratom-and-alcohol/

Obviously it's not something I just pulled out of my ass. And, like I said, no. Kratom is not 13x more powerful than morphine. I'm familiar with that study, it shows that one isolated component of kratom is more powerful mg-to-mg... Kratom is obviously a very complex plant, with several components.


None of those are scientific sources. They are blog posts. Also, mitragynine (the largest psychoactive component of kratom by volume) is about half as powerful as morphine. Given the potency of morphine, that's pretty fucking powerful.
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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:41 am 
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I wasn’t saying that kratom effects the receptors in the same way. i was saying that they both have a dosing plateau. Show me “scientific” research that proves otherwise, I’ll even except anecdotal “blog posts” considering most of the research of kratom is anecdotal
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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Uchies wrote:
I wasn’t saying that kratom effects the receptors in the same way. i was saying that they both have a dosing plateau. Show me “scientific” research that proves otherwise, I’ll even except anecdotal “blog posts” considering most of the research of kratom is anecdotal


I'm not the one claiming kratom has a dosing plateau, the burden of proof is on you to show that it does... hell, one of the articles YOU linked claimed that people who weren't already addicted to opioids showed a negligible dosing plateau effect, which I assume would be most of the users.
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 Post subject: Re: CBD Oil
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 pm 
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Welp that ended the cbd legal era hahah the dam dea put it back under a controlled substance


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