Not really Stagediving, the continuation.

Doldol · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:15 pm

Preface: While having an interesting dicussion we went offtopic in this discussion

Especially since I'm Staff+, I'd like to not continue talking there but rather do the correct thing and use a separate topic.

-----------------

Uchies wrote:

Kharn wrote:

Neezon wrote:

Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America.

Sorry if I seem confrontational about this. However, your reply (even if large parts of it were a joke), are really ignorrant and not based on facts.

Citation's requested, thanks!

+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut.

Could you explain why Neezon is acting like a hysterical nut, I cannot see how you can justify calling him that (Please keep in mind the definitions of both words in-context.).

Kharn wrote:

Doldol wrote:

Personally, I'm really into European culture, so I tend to bring my Muslim master out to these events, always makes it a bang-ing show for me like in Paris tbh. =]

Fix'd that for you, though I find it crazy that the surviving group that did the Paris attacks are at worst...getting 20 years which is the max EU punishment.

Could you please provide citation and/or any other kind of evidence for highlighted.

Kharn wrote:

Neezon wrote:

Because I said so, thank you for your time :)

Fixed that for you, you are quite welcome.

While it is fair to ask for citation, the USA's involvement in the modern middle-east is considered a well documented piece of world history, thus it is fair to say that "fixing-that-for-you" in that manner is being disingenuous. I give you the benefit here of being that rather than ignorant or otherwise in-the-dark of quite important world history, without which you cannot hope to understand even a sliver of the current state of our fair world.

Closing:
While I guess someone could close this discussion on a technicality, I hope that person wouldn't choose to first begin to take part in a discussion of this nature.

Doldol · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:36 am

Also I'd like to apologize for my original post, I can understand how you could see it as mean, it was also off-topic.

Personally these type of discussions are fun for me, and if I open with a dry, bland, reasonable, logical post there are a lot less comments on it than when I make a contentious post.
Additionally I think the reasoning behind the post was accurate but darkly funny. So true, contentious and lighthearted. I'm down with that as opening statement.

Still if it offended you, that was not my intention as I do not see my or your posts as personal, unless specifically stated.
To me a contentious post is just a tool to get you to reply.

Kharn · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:29 am

Spoiler: Show

Doldol wrote:

Could you please provide citation and/or any other kind of evidence for highlighted.

Sure
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-euro ... SKBN1FO0UP

Quote:

Prosecutors say Abdeslam and Ayari fled the Forest flat while Belkaid held off police. Ayari’s defense on Monday was that he and Abdeslam did not open fire before fleeing. The prosecutor, however, sought 20 years in prison for both, saying they took part in a joint operation to ambush the officers.

Quote from the article.

Also my

Kharn wrote:

Doldol wrote:

Personally, I'm really into European culture, so I tend to bring my Muslim master out to these events, always makes it a bang-ing show for me like in Paris tbh. =]

Was a joke response for the ar15 response you made first in that thread, citation shouldn't be needed for a counter joke to another joke.

Doldol wrote:

While it is fair to ask for citation, the USA's involvement in the modern middle-east is considered a well documented piece of world history, thus it is fair to say that "fixing-that-for-you" in that manner is being disingenuous. I give you the benefit here of being that rather than ignorant or otherwise in-the-dark of quite important world history, without which you cannot hope to understand even a sliver of the current state of our fair world.

I ask for citations/sources for the highlighted portions of Neezon's response to my joke, Neezon responded by simply insinuating that what he stated was common knowledge but couldn't provide sources/response.

Neezon wrote:

Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America.

Sorry if I seem confrontational about this. However, your reply (even if large parts of it were a joke), are really ignorrant and not based on facts.

I'm asking for sources/citations to prove that terrorism in the EU is directly caused America, I will not accept "Indirectly!" as an excuse as the issue of Terrorism world-wide is a complex issue and too simply point blame at any one single nation as the sole cause is the "ignorrant"(as neezon put it) answer and indicates a person who hasn't invested effort or time in the topic.

Instead, I'll refute his statement, though as much as I'm sure you would like to jump in Doldol I would prefer Neezon respond as it's his statements which were meant to be serious, both you and I acknowledge we made jokes and I provided the source you requested which should satisfy you.

First, lets establish that we are talking about Radical Islamic terrorism, which enacted the Paris Attacks, which killed 130 people with firearms and explosives(Gun-free country by the way, no right to bear arms in any situation and even if you had a firearm you would break the law by defending yourself).

Then let me point to this Article:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/0 ... to-be-the/

Quote:

In July 2013, Wahhabism was identified by the European Parliament in Strasbourg as the main source of global terrorism.

Already it's clear what the cause of EU's Radical Islamic Terror is, but since Neezon will most likely still insist that America is the cause I'll keep going.

Quote:

In the 1970s, with the help of funding from petroleum exports and other factors, Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques across the globe and the movement underwent "explosive growth".

I wonder who buy's Saudi oil the most? And who would benefit from stability in the middle-east the most?

http://energyfuse.org/europes-oil-import-dilemma/

Quote:

The bulk of EU oil imports originate from Russia, other FSU countries, and the Middle East and North Africa. Russia is a major exporter of oil to Europe, as it is for natural gas, and last year it was the source of 29 percent of the EU’s oil imports

Pretty clear where a lot of that oil money is going, which means the EU in its own need for oil is funding the terrorists.

I'm going to bed but I'll keep an eye on this thread tomorrow.

Neezon · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:54 am

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion. What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_impr ... in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:06 am

Neezon wrote:

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion.

Spoiler: Show

What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

Says he doesn't care and is done with the subject...

...Writes essay response

Clearly you do care but you dont have the balls to actually defend your position
-10 rep

Tricky · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:37 am

Lunk wrote:

Neezon wrote:

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion.

Spoiler: Show

What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

Says he doesn't care and is done with the subject...

...Writes essay response

Clearly you do care but you dont have the balls to actually defend your position
-10 rep

-warn rep. Stay on topic, don't post if you aren't commenting/ actively adding into the discussion.

Yiggles Moto · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:58 am

Spoiler: Show

Neezon wrote:

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion. What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

If you want to make a statement with that much weight to it, the burden of proof is on you. Since you seem really against providing sources, makes anyone reading your replies skeptical to believe you at all.

"its america's fault and if you don't believe me then piss off" is not a very good way to back it up

SpazzO · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:21 am

The CIA (formerly OSS) did meddle heavily in the Middle East.
This dates back to the late 1940s.
Regimes were often overthrown by CIA/OSS trained rebellion groups.

Neezon · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:39 am

Yiggles Moto wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Neezon wrote:

As stated, I'm done with the discussion. I don't need to have a final word, I don't need to disprove you, because frankly I don't care to devote that amount of time to a rather pointless online discussion. What I will do however, is clarify my previous statement:

"Terrorism in Europe is not caused by Europeans, it is actually largely due to America." To be clear (as admittedly, it was worded poorly), what I mean by this is that a majority of terrorist attacks happening in Europe are not done by European people (in heritage and culture. What this generally means, at least how we define it where I live, is to say individuals from very different cultures usually don't truly integrate into the culture of the country they move to until around the third generation.) What is meant by the "largely due to America" is a short, as well as non-specific argument, albeit something I figured would be understood regardless. The US is, to a fairly big part, responsible for a lot of the "new-wave" of terrorist organisations due to their meddlings in the middle-east. This is not to say Europe as a whole or europeans are not also partly responsible, because to varying degrees, european countries have assisted the US in their middle-eastern efforts.

As for the oil import from Saudi Arabia, the sources I found regarding the matter listed the US as one of the biggest importers of SA oil, together with China and India.
Frankly, the only information I could quickly find regarding the matter was this quote "The top export destinations of Saudi Arabia are China ($26.7B), the United States ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), South Korea ($17.7B) and Other Asia ($12.5B)." which doesn't exactly offer Europe as a package deal, so I can't really argue against you on that point, except for pointing out the clear influence of the US yet again (though I do know several if not most Europeans also import oil from SA which frankly saddens me).

Also, if you literally google "Life imprisonment in Belgium" you will get a quick and easy link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Belgium) that shows how it works in Belgium (similar to most of Europe). "Life imprisonment" is usually around 20 years in most countries in Europe, after which the convicted may apply for parole. If their parole is rejected however, due to being considered unfit for society, or simply unsafe, the parole will be rejected and they will continue serving time in prison, most likely until death.

And quite frankly, I do believe the US' interference in the middle-east, as well as the repercussions it had, should be common knowledge (at least amongst americans!)

But as said, if you disagree, that is fine. Changing your mind isn't really that important to me. Making myself clear and understood is, which my first post admittedly lacked.

Furthermore, I'd like to nominate this response:

"+rep

I'm laughing my ass off... CITATIONS PLEASE, THANKS NEEZON.... hysterical nut."

as most mind-boggling of that thread. Once again, thanks for your time! :)

If you want to make a statement with that much weight to it, the burden of proof is on you. Since you seem really against providing sources, makes anyone reading your replies skeptical to believe you at all.

"its america's fault and if you don't believe me then piss off" is not a very good way to back it up

I respect that you have that opinion, which is fair. However as I said above, I feel as though these are the type of issues that should be common knowledge amongst americans, and if they aren't, I'm not really invested enough to dig up good articles about it, as it can be a rather complicated situation in full. So to those not aware, my argument definitely will be weak.

Also trying to not sounds arrogant about it, even if I often am, I just feel like it should be such a hot topic in the US that people would know.

Kharn · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:44 am

SpazzO wrote:

The CIA (formerly OSS) did meddle heavily in the Middle East.
This dates back to the late 1940s.
Regimes were often overthrown by CIA/OSS trained rebellion groups.

And we(NATO Countries) also fought a cold war against another super-power who was doing the same, and don't leave out Britain's MI-6 or Frances DGSE. From 1946 to now we(NATO Countries) still fight a war of intelligence against old enemies and new threats, and for all the terrorism that does happen, you just wonder how much doesn't because of those secret intelligence agencies?

My counter, if it really need's to be stated as a "Counter" to what you've said Spazzo, is that the CIA is just the more talked/visible about Intelligence Agency. Do I think France's or Britain's IA's do the same sort of shit? Yup. But they have better OPSEC if anything, and more than likely better control of their nations media and what gets reported.

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