My Opinion

Young Lean · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 4:06 pm

This is not meant to target anyone, this is just how I've interpreted everything and my opinion on it.
I know you're all sick of the drama in EgN but if this doesn't interest you, feel free to not read it.

"How is it possible for ordinary people courteous and decent in everyday life to act inhumanely without any limitations of conscience?"

Quoted from the milgram experiments, where people would be shocked for answering questions incorrectly, building up to highly dangerous levels of shock, not stopping when subjects showed clear signs of objection.
It was found that figures of authority behind a person gives the person a sense of authority aswell, which could make them do far more than they would be willing to do on their own.
So when we look at why staff+ is acting the way they are we have to take in account all of their influences, and what drives them to maintain their respect amongst eachother.
We also have to take in account the fact that when a staff+ makes a harsh decision they don't have to face it head on, they are behind a screen in the comfort of their own home. (like in the milgrams experiment, not having to see the subject in pain only hearing their objections)

Choosing Staff+ through an arbitrary method of kissing ass and then making others think that they were chosen based off their ability to accept criticism and willingness to improve the community, you are bound to have problems.
It is most apparent when a respected member comes to the forums talking about problems they have with the community and instead of being taken seriously they are met with anger and punishment with the goal of censorship.
In order for a community to act formally it begins with the people holding higher positions, holding members to a code of ethics is a lot less problematic when the higher ups also conform to it which is far from the case in EgN.
I know for a fact that some higher ups see the underlying issue of Staff not being able to act appropriately but in their defence it is an awkward situation to fix.

Calling on the Standford Prison Experiment, you can see that the guards began pushing the prisoners until they began to object against their rule and they were met with stronger punishment, leading to rebellion.
Clearly this is not a prison but it holds the same principle of our authority figures pushing members till they object, leading to further punishment.
So this identifies the issue that objection/criticism is meant to be used constructively by the members, and is not to be taken as a personal attack by the higher ups.
If you think somebody is being rude with their criticism what does it matter? Let them get their negative energy out, and take what you can from what they're actually saying.
If someone is acting out of line it's only hurting their own reputation, and responding with genuine concern for the issue at hand shows that you're more interested in doing your job than defending your reputation.

CharlieKelly · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 4:48 pm

I think we all just need to take a drink, smoke a bowl, and wait for Big Papa (Kharn) to finish whatever the hell he's doing, cause right now we're just kinda yelling at the air.

Hopefully we get some elaboration from the higher ups at the end of this little rough spot in EgN's relationships.
(I personally ship Phil and Rias)

Young Lean · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 4:57 pm

CharlieKelly wrote:

I think we all just need to take a drink, smoke a bowl, and wait for Big Papa (Kharn) to finish whatever the hell he's doing, cause right now we're just kinda yelling at the air.

Hopefully we get some elaboration from the higher ups at the end of this little rough spot in EgN's relationships.
(I personally ship Phil and Rias)

I don't think there's an issue with being serious about it, from what I've seen I'd assume Kharn would rather us sort it out on our own instead of him having to make all the big decisions.
But if that's the fate of all this, the more opinions we put out, the better Kharn can judge what to do.

Geeza · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Are you saying that Staff make their decisions on their own accord? Only thinking about themselves? Well if that is true, who do you come to when youre in need of assistance or in need of elaboration on what this or that rule actually means? They make decisions benefiting the community, not just for themselves.

Also, are you saying that those who are Staff kissed ass to get it? I'm pretty sure, of course please let me know if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone kiss ass?

Also on your recent reply, I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is make these kind of subjects private or just kept in steam messages, I'm pretty sure the community doesnt want to see posts about people bitching all the time.

Please of course if I've got anything misread or simply I misunderstood anything.

Young Lean · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 5:19 pm

Mr.Geeza wrote:

Are you saying that Staff make their decisions on their own accord? Only thinking about themselves? Well if that is true, who do you come to when youre in need of assistance or in need of elaboration on what this or that rule actually means? They make decisions benefiting the community, not just for themselves.

Also, are you saying that those who are Staff kissed ass to get it? I'm pretty sure, of course please let me know if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone kiss ass?

Also on your recent reply, I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is make these kind of subjects private or just kept in steam messages, I'm pretty sure the community doesnt want to see posts about people bitching all the time.

Please of course if I've got anything misread or simply I misunderstood anything.

I'm not saying that Staff isn't playing a role in maintaining the community, I agree they've benefited everyone in some way.
I can't speak for everyone but I've never kissed ass to anyone in EgN, some people are better at it than others but just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's right.
In my opinion I think it'd be better to choose people who don't kiss ass, if someone is Staff+ material they should be sought out by the community, not in teamspeak trying to get brownie points.
This isn't bitching, it's a well put together argument from my point of view. I'm not demanding anything is done, I'm just trying to constructively criticize the community.

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 9:10 pm

My honest opinion of what happened is gold&matt took the criticism of their performance as staff as personal attacks. Both matt and gold games get EXTREMELY emotional when talking about any criticism. When i was last in trouble for saying matt could not be objective he started yelling at me saying "of course i cant be objective your saying im not a good staff!" or something very similar. Which no other staff+ thought that was a cause of concern even though they were ALL present when he said that and he has stated many times since that he lets his emotions get in the way of his judgment.

The same thing happened yesterday with goldgames when he said i took his quote out of context and i said he was wrong. Before i could even explain why i thought so he literally started screaming over me repeating "im wrong?! Im wrong?! Im wrong?!" so loud that kharn threatened to mute the entire channel just because gold wouldn't stop screaming. Instead of seeing these actions as immature and unacceptable i was punished because i hurt their feelings.

I think kharn didn't want to admit his staff could do something wrong and didn't even try to look at it from a member's point of view. And yesterday he just favored his staff over a member and thought the easiest way to solve the problem was to just get rid of the guy making them upset.

He was actually so arrogant yesterday when dealing with the situation that when i told i wasn't the only who felt his staff were disconnected with members and weren't doing as good as they could be doing but people were just afraid to say bad things about staff, he disagreed and said "well all 6 of the people who agree with you can decide if you can rejoin the clan after i set you back to recruit" then kick me out of the channel, then the clan.

Well i hope now that this shit storm has come and so many people have spoken out kharn can admit there is a problem with some of his staff and the way the deal with any public criticism. I dont think thats likely though after he doubled down and created the ban vote that failed against me because he would think backing down now would make him look bad.

Anyway thats my opinion of why things ended up the way they did and even though so many of the staff treated me like crap, i dont plan on giving up on this community. I never did anything for this clan to impress anyone else, including staff. I put in work so the people in the clan who actually enjoy playing games together can keep doing just that. Hope u guys feel the same way.

Kharn · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 10:38 pm

I'm sorry that you guys are unhappy with the choices we Staff have made, but we are still your staff. We are human and yes we make mistakes. But if you don't like how the management is running things then I suggest you try another community, or perhaps those who are brave and have the funds can start their own community.

Ultimately the choices are my own, I make them as the person you all trust to run and manage the community. If your assuming that the Lunk situation was handled without me considering things you'd be wrong, I was directly involved and made the choice.

You're free to disagree with my choice, but by wearing the "EgN|" tags your saying you trust me to make the choices. If you aren't happy then I suggest you try somewhere else, I've thought over and over how I handled Lunk and feel confident I made the right choice. I don't expect you guys to understand my reasoning or to understand the different memories and experiences I use to evaluate each situation, but I do expect you guys to accept that the choices aren't always in your hands and that joining the community you agreed to follow the decisions of this leadership.

I'm happy to let constructive criticisms threads exist, but it's still Staff+'s choice and prerogative to either close or lock a thread. Any time fingers are getting pointed it becomes less about a problem and more about attacking someone because you dislike them, and while I don't expect you guys to like the Staff+ I do expect you to respect their choices and decisions. And if a Staff+ has made an error then it falls to Me alone to deal with them, and if I don't see an error then there isn't.

Young Lean · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 11:17 pm

Mr. Kharn wrote:

I'm sorry that you guys are unhappy with the choices we Staff have made, but we are still your staff. We are human and yes we make mistakes. But if you don't like how the management is running things then I suggest you try another community, or perhaps those who are brave and have the funds can start their own community.

Ultimately the choices are my own, I make them as the person you all trust to run and manage the community. If your assuming that the Lunk situation was handled without me considering things you'd be wrong, I was directly involved and made the choice.

You're free to disagree with my choice, but by wearing the "EgN|" tags your saying you trust me to make the choices. If you aren't happy then I suggest you try somewhere else, I've thought over and over how I handled Lunk and feel confident I made the right choice. I don't expect you guys to understand my reasoning or to understand the different memories and experiences I use to evaluate each situation, but I do expect you guys to accept that the choices aren't always in your hands and that joining the community you agreed to follow the decisions of this leadership.

I'm happy to let constructive criticisms threads exist, but it's still Staff+'s choice and prerogative to either close or lock a thread. Any time fingers are getting pointed it becomes less about a problem and more about attacking someone because you dislike them, and while I don't expect you guys to like the Staff+ I do expect you to respect their choices and decisions. And if a Staff+ has made an error then it falls to Me alone to deal with them, and if I don't see an error then there isn't.

We all know you made the choice, but not without influence from the staff and the issues lie with the fact that we do not trust the staff with that responsibility.
This isn't about liking or disliking someones personality, this is about pointing out mistakes and elaborating on how/why they happened.
But as I said, this isn't about pointing fingers. I'm just giving everyone something to think about, and although you do have the final say with everything it's still important that we voice our opinions.
I know my role as a member, there's nothing I can do but use the forums as a platform to give my two cents on issues in hopes to influence others.

--Edit

This shit has been going on for a while and I've made a big deal about it in the past, but removing one of EgN's most respected members is kicking the fucking bee hive.
We all know if the staff weren't pushing for it, it wouldn't have happened, it's respectable that you're trying to take the shit for them, but I don't believe you would have done it without their influence.
I'm fully aware you have the power to just end it and kick everyone complaining, but I have to stand up for this.

Tricky · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 11:35 pm

When will this die?

Kharn · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 12:20 am

Young Lean wrote:

As I said, this isn't about pointing fingers. I'm just giving everyone something to think about, and although you do have the final say with everything it's still important that we voice our opinions.
I know my role as a member, there's nothing I can do about these problems but talk about them.
Every choice you make is partially driven by influence, and I use the forums as a platform to give my two cents on issues in hopes that others feel the same.

I really doubt Lunk has explained that he's not being demoted for expressing his opinion, he's being demoted because he has been hurling abuse and foul language at Goldgames and Matt. He's made it clear through PM that he takes it personal, he was warned last month in a Staff meeting to stop making things personal.

An example of Lunk's personal attacks would be:

Again, his personal attacks got him warned by the Staff to please stop being rude and offensive with his insults, expressing an opinion shouldn't include more abuse...that you were already warned not to do.

Then Lunk made viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25075

This was another personal attack against Goldgames after being warned in person that he needed to stop directly targeting Goldgames. We've tried to explain the difference between being constructive with criticism and just being a douche, and all it's done is make him hide the abuse while trying to pose as being a victim.

I'm all for free speech but not when it's purely driven by hate and dislike of an individual, and it's fucked up when you mask your hate with good intentions. Not to mention he's been punished for attacking members before, for doing the same things I'm telling you he's done in private message to Staff+. Most of his hate for Goldgames comes from him locking threads that Staff+ deem as being disruptive or out of control or even abusive, many times we've locked threads where abuse is being hurled at someone only for those hurling the abuse to get pissed that the thread is locked.

Bottom-Line:

I don't ban for having a different opinion, nor do I ban for people expressing their feelings and thoughts as long as it's constructive. But I do take exception when people try to force others by abuse or coercion to be different, EgN is supposed to be a safe place for people to relax and discuss and talk freely among themselves as long as the rules are obeyed. I never like to punish people for the very reason I prefer this place be relaxing and casual, but when someone is abusive and rude and doesn't listen to warnings then what's left to do? Do I want Lunk to be a Recruit? Nope. Did he know this was coming? Yes. Has he been taking his punishment with dignity? Nope. Do I think he's learned anything? Nope. He still thinks that he needs to be abusive and rude since he knows best, he thinks he needs to do whatever it takes to get his way.

But hey...if you don't like the way things are and can't stand how things are managed then feel free to start your own community, it's the best method to understanding the pressures of leadership.

But this is a lot of text, I doubt Lunk is going to read it all since he has said:

Register

Login

My Opinion

Print view

Previous topic | Next topic

Who is online