secrets on "ba_jail_outer_space" (for staff and all admins)

Terminator · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:35 pm

Ok so,

We have the map called "ba_jail_outer_space" and "ba_jail_outer_space v2" rolling on the jailbreak servers and it is getting quite popular recently. It wasn't played alot at all, so i think that the rules about the secrets of that map are a lil opinionated from admin to admin.
For example: the laser on that map is a much hated/loved secret and alot of people want to use it to kill everybody in an instand. When i played for the first time on that map people used the laser over and over and nobody really did anything about because it was considered a normal secret and t's could use it freely.
Now i have some admins doing nothing about it but other admins say that using the laser falls beneath being an asshole because u actually are an ashole if u use it, it does not require skillz to use it and it is an easy way for u to get lr or just ruin the game for everybody.

but then u got other secrets then look innocent, like the "speed seret". i have seen multiple members, admin, and elites using it openly and to it's full potential. they catch up rebeling t's in a sec and t's have almost no chanse to properly rebel. When u say something about it some will say that it is not allowed and others will say it is because it is not a weapon, but a "normal" secret.

there are also other secrets like the lasersword, but it is clear that that one is a no go for ct's.

I think it is time that there are specific rules for the secrets on outer space to stop confusing, and stop abuse of them in the future. This way every admin has clearity of who is suposed and not suposed to use wich secret and they can deal with it properly.

If a few staff and staff+ could react and give some clearity in this map i would really appreciate it, it would be the best for that map.

Wolfie · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:40 pm

If it was for staffs and higher ups you could've just sent them a pm.. now everyone can read it..

Terminator · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:41 pm

i know i meant all admins

Geeza · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:45 pm

The lazer is a secret. Ts are able to use it freely but some admins can take action as it falls under this rule:

Don't act like an asshole

People will be wanting to just do the orders provided by the warden without being victimized by the Terrorist in the laser killing them all. In why I normally tell that Terrorist to either stop it in future considering I myself get a bit frustrated when people use the laser and kill all the Terrorists in sight.

So goes for the speed secret, this is a secret and CTs shouldn't be using it at all, I'd class it as a secret weapon/object, if it isn't classed as that and it's classed as a secret then they'll only be using it for 10 seconds before slaying themselves, which is pointless in why they should not be using it anyway.

Secret weapons NOT picked up by T's must remain where they spawn.

Only the Terrorists are able to use the speed secret and CTs are not.

mattlikespie · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Mr.Geeza wrote:

The lazer is a secret. Ts are able to use it freely but some admins can take action as it falls under this rule:

Don't act like an asshole

People will be wanting to just do the orders provided by the warden without being victimized by the Terrorist in the laser killing them all. In why I normally tell that Terrorist to either stop it in future considering I myself get a bit frustrated when people use the laser and kill all the Terrorists in sight.

So goes for the speed secret, this is a secret and CTs shouldn't be using it at all, I'd class it as a secret weapon/object, if it isn't classed as that and it's classed as a secret then they'll only be using it for 10 seconds before slaying themselves, which is pointless in why they should not be using it anyway.Q

Secret weapons NOT picked up by T's must remain where they spawn.

Only the Terrorists are able to use the speed secret and CTs are not.

Yea this is pretty much it, but for a little more elaboration;

Well, clearly CTs can't use the laser cause its in armory and its a weapon. No problem there, but clearly you know that. In terms of terrorists using it, there is no explicit rule stating that terrorists cannot teamkill. Yea, it can be considered being an asshole, so whether it is or not is up to the highest ranking admin on at the time. But if it's interrupting gameplay, i.e like the entire team of 20 terrorists is killed and people start complaining and they can't even play because they keep getting teamkilled, well then its messing with gameplay and it should be stopped by the admins online. If I remember correctly, at the admin meeting we tried to get a rule to prevent Teamkilling but y'all didn't vote it through so.

Other secrets that can be picked up; Geeza is right, CTs should not use these. Yea the rule says "secret weapons" but I'm pretty sure the intent of the rule is all equip-able secrets. I'll talk with the other staff/Yiggles on this and seeing if it can be reworded.

Mr.GoldGames · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:01 pm

There is an older version of this map that doesn't have the laser and library. I can send it to Yiggles if I ever find it.

Marz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:46 pm

terminator wrote:

Ok so,

We have the map called "ba_jail_outer_space" and "ba_jail_outer_space v2" rolling on the jailbreak servers and it is getting quite popular recently. It wasn't played alot at all, so i think that the rules about the secrets of that map are a lil opinionated from admin to admin.
For example: the laser on that map is a much hated/loved secret and alot of people want to use it to kill everybody in an instand. When i played for the first time on that map people used the laser over and over and nobody really did anything about because it was considered a normal secret and t's could use it freely.
Now i have some admins doing nothing about it but other admins say that using the laser falls beneath being an asshole because u actually are an ashole if u use it, it does not require skillz to use it and it is an easy way for u to get lr or just ruin the game for everybody.

but then u got other secrets then look innocent, like the "speed seret". i have seen multiple members, admin, and elites using it openly and to it's full potential. they catch up rebeling t's in a sec and t's have almost no chanse to properly rebel. When u say something about it some will say that it is not allowed and others will say it is because it is not a weapon, but a "normal" secret.

there are also other secrets like the lasersword, but it is clear that that one is a no go for ct's.

I think it is time that there are specific rules for the secrets on outer space to stop confusing, and stop abuse of them in the future. This way every admin has clearity of who is suposed and not suposed to use wich secret and they can deal with it properly.

If a few staff and staff+ could react and give some clearity in this map i would really appreciate it, it would be the best for that map.

mattlikespie wrote:

Mr.Geeza wrote:

The lazer is a secret. Ts are able to use it freely but some admins can take action as it falls under this rule:

Don't act like an asshole

People will be wanting to just do the orders provided by the warden without being victimized by the Terrorist in the laser killing them all. In why I normally tell that Terrorist to either stop it in future considering I myself get a bit frustrated when people use the laser and kill all the Terrorists in sight.

So goes for the speed secret, this is a secret and CTs shouldn't be using it at all, I'd class it as a secret weapon/object, if it isn't classed as that and it's classed as a [color=#FF]secret[/color] then they'll only be using it for 10 seconds before slaying themselves, which is pointless in why they should not be using it anyway.Q

Secret weapons NOT picked up by T's must remain where they spawn.

Only the Terrorists are able to use the speed secret and CTs are not.

Yea this is pretty much it, but for a little more elaboration;

Well, clearly CTs can't use the laser cause its in armory and its a weapon. No problem there, but clearly you know that. In terms of terrorists using it, there is no explicit rule stating that terrorists cannot teamkill. Yea, it can be considered being an asshole, so whether it is or not is up to the highest ranking admin on at the time. But if it's interrupting gameplay, i.e like the entire team of 20 terrorists is killed and people start complaining and they can't even play because they keep getting teamkilled, well then its messing with gameplay and it should be stopped by the admins online. If I remember correctly, at the admin meeting we tried to get a rule to prevent Teamkilling but y'all didn't vote it through so.

Other secrets that can be picked up; Geeza is right, CTs should not use these. Yea the rule says "secret weapons" but I'm pretty sure the intent of the rule is all equip-able secrets. I'll talk with the other staff/Yiggles on this and seeing if it can be reworded.

I would just like to quickly state a few things:

1. If this map was an issue, then the community would not choose this map. The reason why people enjoy this map so much is because of the amount of secrets and "fun" that this map has. I personally think this map is unique, stating that since no other map I have played has a secret speed buff to use. Now, I being an "asshole" honestly rebelling is not being an asshole lol. using a map and its abilities/secrets does not make that person being an asshole. I feel like stating that the "speed buff" is a secret weapon is pretty biased, stating how CT's are allowed to use secrets, and then not allowed to? if the laser was not in armory, then honestly that would not be concidered a secret, because its just a pod you enter to activate the laser.

2. If you are going to call this laser a secret, then its the same for the vehicles in jb_paper_alive_fix, or the other secret laser gun in ba_jail_xtremb_downview_v4. WEAPONS are different from ABILITIES. This map was even in the rotation before our last admin meeting, and no admin brought up this issue, meaning no other admins have a problem with this laser issue except you apparently. That isnt a bad thing, however, if a T successfully rebelled into the armory, he has access to many different tools at his disposal, and if the laser is one of them, then why not use it? Rounds are never progressed in JB anyways, and if it is a T who is in the laser, he is TK'ing his own team, which technically happens every round all the time, when we play games to choose one T to die, and fight for LR. I dont see the problem with the laser tbh, NOR the speed buff. It would be wrong to state that no admin or EgN member hasnt ever used the laser when they wanted to to kill everyone. Being an asshole is obviously a very vague rule, and if you want to use that to defend TK'ing, then choosing other T's to die is technically being an asshole.

3. I do understand the intent of the rule Matt, but if thats not explicitly stated, then the community, even other admins who I will not mention, will use the rules as their bible, and justify what they mean. So when the rules state FOR CT'S "Secret weapons NOT picked up by T's must remain where they spawn.", a weapon isnt a buff, which means that rule should obviously be edited ASAP if thats the problem.

Where am I going with this: JailBreak is meant to rebel, meaning if maps have access to rebel, then why not? There are ways to avoid the laser, maybe wardens can move faster and progress the round quicker, maybe not stand in front of the main cell stairs? One "exploit" of the map wont hurt the rest of it. Also, you need skill to get LR? The point of JB is to rebel and for T's to eliminate each other anyways??? Why is it suddenly such a problem now? JailBreak will always be chaotic no matter what we do, so why are things suddenly so bad?

Marz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:47 pm

Mr.GoldGames wrote:

There is an older version of this map that doesn't have the laser and library. I can send it to Yiggles if I ever find it.

Also, I understand that there are other maps, but why downgrade a map when obviously the other versions are being updated so that they are "better" and more optimal? Im just asking in general

Mr.GoldGames · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:00 pm

Marz145 wrote:

Mr.GoldGames wrote:

There is an older version of this map that doesn't have the laser and library. I can send it to Yiggles if I ever find it.

Also, I understand that there are other maps, but why downgrade a map when obviously the other versions are being updated so that they are "better" and more optimal? Im just asking in general

For the sake of getting rid of certain things people don't like in a map. Obviously if there are so many complaints about a peticular thing in a map, you'd want to get rid of those things so that people find the map, enjoyable. So, downgrading to a map that doesn't have those things will benefit the majority of the population.

Yiggles Moto · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:32 pm

Counter-Strike: Source wrote:

Entity name: weapon_smokegrenade

CTs should not be getting these items.

Not just from the leave secret weapons where they've spawned rule, but the playing their role as well. The CTs should be remaining with the Ts or chasing rebellers. Going out of your way to leave the Ts and hunt down the secrets in the game are not your role.

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secrets on "ba_jail_outer_space" (for staff and all admins)

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