Jailbreak Wardays...

Cooper · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:03 pm

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Quote:

cooper;
-it is not just CT's job to progress the round it is only stated that admins must ensure the round progress, this means it applies to both T and CT. You are conflating that with "CT's must play their role" which in a warday is only specified to being the last Team standing. The only rule right now that makes CT's have to expand is the 3:30 rule.
-again being "fair" should have nothing to do with the argument as the gamemode is not intended to be 50/50 fair to begin with. The only time "fairness" is involved is the lazy and poorly worded extension of the rule "no hacking, scripts, or anything considered unfair" which is only in regards to players not rules so it is still irrelevant.

Simplistic;
-A better revison of this rule would be "Ct's must expand warday within {4:30-3:00} and must leave warday by {3:00}"
this would:
+give the CT's back their unpredictable expansion advantage
+prevent T's from waiting in tele's until after CT's must leave as CT team can have players check tele entry points while holding tele exits as well
+prevent CT's from waiting out the round like cowards
+encourage T's to take initiative when attacking in start of round as they will only be guaranteed to know the CT's position for 1.5min

I never was trying to say the CTs had to expand because of their role, but they are the ones responsible for the war in the first plce and did get multiple chances to overcome their number disadvantage (location, weapon choice, angles, strategy etc) so they should be the ones held accountable,if they do bad the T’s shouldn’t be forced to play at a disadvantage because they did well.
there is no rule or rp reason to support that argument, only your person preference so im gonna have to disregard this

Like I said the rule just makes other rules harder to enforce and even can incentivize CTs to not kill Ts so they don’t have to expand and keep their advantage.
That is why i proposed a revision among other reasons, i dont know what you disagree with here...

In response to your suggestion, like Term said the T’s will still camp or adapt to the new rule and wait to teleport later
i think you should read terms post again because he actually agrees with my point "i do agree it would give a bigger time frame in which they can try and surprise the T's camping the exits and such." and the whole idea is to give CT's a larger time frame to deal with this, not prevent the tactic entirely. if you disagree please explain why you think the revision would be worse than what we have no or by all means offer up your own idea.

CTs will also tend to wait till the last minute as well.
not saying it will get rid of it entirely but it will incentivise them to use other tactics as well. either way tho its not a argument against the rule so i dont know why you would include it in the first place as it would'it create any problems we dont already have.

fyi im just gonna cut out all irreverent information from your post as most of it just had personal attacks and were not points to argue.

i honestly dont really see any reason not to revise the rule to what i suggested based off of what you wrote.

Calling out faulty arguments and fallacious statements is not a personal attack, the part you “cut out” was addressing points that were objectively wrong and or irrelevant. Majority of your original post was talking about “fairness” but what you were defining as “fairness” is actually “equallity”, but we can just follow your red herring and set this aside.

The rule says CTs have to expand unless outnumbered, so yes there is a rule saying they have to be the ones to expand. I am specifically arguing about removing the “outnumbered clause” because its against the nature of wardays (CTs killing Ts and vice versa), makes other rules harder to enforce (ex making sure the round progresses), rewards bad play while punishing good play, and just adds an unecessary layer of confusion for not only players but admins as well. My reasoning was the numbers shouldn’t matter because they called the war willingly, they knew what they were getting into and they should have to suffer the consequences instead of making things more difficult for everyone.

Your revision has a lot of problems with it like I already said and not much would change, it’s pretty easy to disagree with. I really don’t know why this change was even voted in in the first place because I don’t recall there being much demand for it in the first place, the original rule was fine.

Term didn’t completely agree with your post, he said he thought T’s would still camp exits and such regardless which is what I was agreeing with. Just because he says he agrees doesn’t mean he agrees in every single aspect, he clearly pointed out areas where your suggestion would be weak or wouldn’t change much multiple times (even if he thought it could still be somewhat effective). I already gave you my ideas, T’s will still camp, CTs will put off expanding as long as they can, won’t change much outside of forced expansion which isn’t the only issue people have, the outnumbered part should be removed.

I dont want to sound rude but honestly it seems you dont understand what an argument is or your just here for the sake of disagreeing.

You keep arguing with me that the outnumbered rule should be gone and i've given reasons why I agree so idk what your arguing with there.

You still haven't given an argument as to why we should not revise the rule as i suggested, instead you just ignored all the reasons i gave as to it would improve the game and said "nah cts are bad they wont take advantage of that" which makes no sense as any good ct player would understand the benefits it provides. And regardless of that by your own argument the revision would not have any negative effects so there would be no reason not to at least try the revised version.

Yeah I’m not gonna bother, don’t want to waste my time if you are just going to pick and choose which setences you read and then ignore the rest. I already explained multiple times why I think the rule should be back to the original version but since you want to keep diverting from what I’m actually saying it’s not worth me responding. Have fun.

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Cooper wrote:

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Quote:

cooper;
-it is not just CT's job to progress the round it is only stated that admins must ensure the round progress, this means it applies to both T and CT. You are conflating that with "CT's must play their role" which in a warday is only specified to being the last Team standing. The only rule right now that makes CT's have to expand is the 3:30 rule.
-again being "fair" should have nothing to do with the argument as the gamemode is not intended to be 50/50 fair to begin with. The only time "fairness" is involved is the lazy and poorly worded extension of the rule "no hacking, scripts, or anything considered unfair" which is only in regards to players not rules so it is still irrelevant.

Simplistic;
-A better revison of this rule would be "Ct's must expand warday within {4:30-3:00} and must leave warday by {3:00}"
this would:
+give the CT's back their unpredictable expansion advantage
+prevent T's from waiting in tele's until after CT's must leave as CT team can have players check tele entry points while holding tele exits as well
+prevent CT's from waiting out the round like cowards
+encourage T's to take initiative when attacking in start of round as they will only be guaranteed to know the CT's position for 1.5min

I never was trying to say the CTs had to expand because of their role, but they are the ones responsible for the war in the first plce and did get multiple chances to overcome their number disadvantage (location, weapon choice, angles, strategy etc) so they should be the ones held accountable,if they do bad the T’s shouldn’t be forced to play at a disadvantage because they did well.
there is no rule or rp reason to support that argument, only your person preference so im gonna have to disregard this

Like I said the rule just makes other rules harder to enforce and even can incentivize CTs to not kill Ts so they don’t have to expand and keep their advantage.
That is why i proposed a revision among other reasons, i dont know what you disagree with here...

In response to your suggestion, like Term said the T’s will still camp or adapt to the new rule and wait to teleport later
i think you should read terms post again because he actually agrees with my point "i do agree it would give a bigger time frame in which they can try and surprise the T's camping the exits and such." and the whole idea is to give CT's a larger time frame to deal with this, not prevent the tactic entirely. if you disagree please explain why you think the revision would be worse than what we have no or by all means offer up your own idea.

CTs will also tend to wait till the last minute as well.
not saying it will get rid of it entirely but it will incentivise them to use other tactics as well. either way tho its not a argument against the rule so i dont know why you would include it in the first place as it would'it create any problems we dont already have.

fyi im just gonna cut out all irreverent information from your post as most of it just had personal attacks and were not points to argue.

i honestly dont really see any reason not to revise the rule to what i suggested based off of what you wrote.

Calling out faulty arguments and fallacious statements is not a personal attack, the part you “cut out” was addressing points that were objectively wrong and or irrelevant. Majority of your original post was talking about “fairness” but what you were defining as “fairness” is actually “equallity”, but we can just follow your red herring and set this aside.

The rule says CTs have to expand unless outnumbered, so yes there is a rule saying they have to be the ones to expand. I am specifically arguing about removing the “outnumbered clause” because its against the nature of wardays (CTs killing Ts and vice versa), makes other rules harder to enforce (ex making sure the round progresses), rewards bad play while punishing good play, and just adds an unecessary layer of confusion for not only players but admins as well. My reasoning was the numbers shouldn’t matter because they called the war willingly, they knew what they were getting into and they should have to suffer the consequences instead of making things more difficult for everyone.

Your revision has a lot of problems with it like I already said and not much would change, it’s pretty easy to disagree with. I really don’t know why this change was even voted in in the first place because I don’t recall there being much demand for it in the first place, the original rule was fine.

Term didn’t completely agree with your post, he said he thought T’s would still camp exits and such regardless which is what I was agreeing with. Just because he says he agrees doesn’t mean he agrees in every single aspect, he clearly pointed out areas where your suggestion would be weak or wouldn’t change much multiple times (even if he thought it could still be somewhat effective). I already gave you my ideas, T’s will still camp, CTs will put off expanding as long as they can, won’t change much outside of forced expansion which isn’t the only issue people have, the outnumbered part should be removed.

I dont want to sound rude but honestly it seems you dont understand what an argument is or your just here for the sake of disagreeing.

You keep arguing with me that the outnumbered rule should be gone and i've given reasons why I agree so idk what your arguing with there.

You still haven't given an argument as to why we should not revise the rule as i suggested, instead you just ignored all the reasons i gave as to it would improve the game and said "nah cts are bad they wont take advantage of that" which makes no sense as any good ct player would understand the benefits it provides. And regardless of that by your own argument the revision would not have any negative effects so there would be no reason not to at least try the revised version.

Yeah I’m not gonna bother, don’t want to waste my time if you are just going to pick and choose which setences you read and then ignore the rest. I already explained multiple times why I think the rule should be back to the original version but since you want to keep diverting from what I’m actually saying it’s not worth me responding. Have fun.

Fair enough come back when you learn how to properly and effective communicate your ideas.

Mr.GoldGames · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Natsu wrote:

Im just throwing my opinion out there so please don't hate on this topic. :)

Too bad, I hate it anyways. Next

Cooper · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Mr. Simplistic wrote:

Cooper wrote:

Quote:

cooper;
-it is not just CT's job to progress the round it is only stated that admins must ensure the round progress, this means it applies to both T and CT. You are conflating that with "CT's must play their role" which in a warday is only specified to being the last Team standing. The only rule right now that makes CT's have to expand is the 3:30 rule.
-again being "fair" should have nothing to do with the argument as the gamemode is not intended to be 50/50 fair to begin with. The only time "fairness" is involved is the lazy and poorly worded extension of the rule "no hacking, scripts, or anything considered unfair" which is only in regards to players not rules so it is still irrelevant.

Simplistic;
-A better revison of this rule would be "Ct's must expand warday within {4:30-3:00} and must leave warday by {3:00}"
this would:
+give the CT's back their unpredictable expansion advantage
+prevent T's from waiting in tele's until after CT's must leave as CT team can have players check tele entry points while holding tele exits as well
+prevent CT's from waiting out the round like cowards
+encourage T's to take initiative when attacking in start of round as they will only be guaranteed to know the CT's position for 1.5min

I never was trying to say the CTs had to expand because of their role, but they are the ones responsible for the war in the first plce and did get multiple chances to overcome their number disadvantage (location, weapon choice, angles, strategy etc) so they should be the ones held accountable,if they do bad the T’s shouldn’t be forced to play at a disadvantage because they did well.
there is no rule or rp reason to support that argument, only your person preference so im gonna have to disregard this

Like I said the rule just makes other rules harder to enforce and even can incentivize CTs to not kill Ts so they don’t have to expand and keep their advantage.
That is why i proposed a revision among other reasons, i dont know what you disagree with here...

In response to your suggestion, like Term said the T’s will still camp or adapt to the new rule and wait to teleport later
i think you should read terms post again because he actually agrees with my point "i do agree it would give a bigger time frame in which they can try and surprise the T's camping the exits and such." and the whole idea is to give CT's a larger time frame to deal with this, not prevent the tactic entirely. if you disagree please explain why you think the revision would be worse than what we have no or by all means offer up your own idea.

CTs will also tend to wait till the last minute as well.
not saying it will get rid of it entirely but it will incentivise them to use other tactics as well. either way tho its not a argument against the rule so i dont know why you would include it in the first place as it would'it create any problems we dont already have.

fyi im just gonna cut out all irreverent information from your post as most of it just had personal attacks and were not points to argue.

i honestly dont really see any reason not to revise the rule to what i suggested based off of what you wrote.

Calling out faulty arguments and fallacious statements is not a personal attack, the part you “cut out” was addressing points that were objectively wrong and or irrelevant. Majority of your original post was talking about “fairness” but what you were defining as “fairness” is actually “equallity”, but we can just follow your red herring and set this aside.

The rule says CTs have to expand unless outnumbered, so yes there is a rule saying they have to be the ones to expand. I am specifically arguing about removing the “outnumbered clause” because its against the nature of wardays (CTs killing Ts and vice versa), makes other rules harder to enforce (ex making sure the round progresses), rewards bad play while punishing good play, and just adds an unecessary layer of confusion for not only players but admins as well. My reasoning was the numbers shouldn’t matter because they called the war willingly, they knew what they were getting into and they should have to suffer the consequences instead of making things more difficult for everyone.

Your revision has a lot of problems with it like I already said and not much would change, it’s pretty easy to disagree with. I really don’t know why this change was even voted in in the first place because I don’t recall there being much demand for it in the first place, the original rule was fine.

Term didn’t completely agree with your post, he said he thought T’s would still camp exits and such regardless which is what I was agreeing with. Just because he says he agrees doesn’t mean he agrees in every single aspect, he clearly pointed out areas where your suggestion would be weak or wouldn’t change much multiple times (even if he thought it could still be somewhat effective). I already gave you my ideas, T’s will still camp, CTs will put off expanding as long as they can, won’t change much outside of forced expansion which isn’t the only issue people have, the outnumbered part should be removed.

I dont want to sound rude but honestly it seems you dont understand what an argument is or your just here for the sake of disagreeing.

You keep arguing with me that the outnumbered rule should be gone and i've given reasons why I agree so idk what your arguing with there.

You still haven't given an argument as to why we should not revise the rule as i suggested, instead you just ignored all the reasons i gave as to it would improve the game and said "nah cts are bad they wont take advantage of that" which makes no sense as any good ct player would understand the benefits it provides. And regardless of that by your own argument the revision would not have any negative effects so there would be no reason not to at least try the revised version.

Yeah I’m not gonna bother, don’t want to waste my time if you are just going to pick and choose which setences you read and then ignore the rest. I already explained multiple times why I think the rule should be back to the original version but since you want to keep diverting from what I’m actually saying it’s not worth me responding. Have fun.

Fair enough come back when you learn how to properly and effective communicate your ideas.

LOL. I said I wasn’t going to reply but if you want to result to weak insults with no substance to them I’d be happy to point out the fact I wasn’t the one that completely ignored certain points or used a strawman and multiple red herrings and then avoided confrontation. Congratulations you have baited me into responding again woohoo.

I’d prefer this thread to stay unlocked so people who actually want to respect and fully understand other people’s opinions (instead of selective reading and twisting/misapplying points) can continue to discuss but I’m not gonna just sit here and let you talk down on my name just because I didn’t like the quality of your responses and suggestions (sorry Staff+ in advance).

“You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.” - John Viscount

Also to anyone else I’m still open to discussion on wardays as long as there isn’t any twisting of words or fallacious bullshit.

Mr. Simplistic · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:09 pm