I was Advisor for over a year and not once do I recall Doldol or Kharn ever consulting me for my opinion on anything. I'm not saying it's a negative, but this is nothing new.

Demoting Wartheft was an executive decision. These are the most difficult decisions in any line of work, the ones that only the Boss can make because only he is fit to shoulder the potential consequences of his actions. If you worked for a company and the boss wanted to move to a larger premises, he would go ahead and do so because it is his company and therefore, his decision to make. As an employee, the financial nitty gritties would be none of your concern.

But back to this demotion. Democracy, in this setting, does not work. It is not your right to decide whether Doldol can or cannot demote whomever he feels should be demoted. EgN is Doldol's clan now, he runs it and he makes decisions like these because obviously, he feels it is for the best. Doldol should not keep Wartheft at Advisor because people like him if Doldol feels that he cannot run the clan effectively with a higher-up he does not want, understood?

Whether you agree with it or not (and I am leaning towards the latter for the majority of you), you do have to admit that only a weak Leader would make a decision only to reverse it after public outcry. I think Doldol feels this is what is best for EgN and I guess it's up to you to each and every one of you what action you take now.

However Mootinie, this is a gaming community, not a business. Even so, with most larger businesses there is no single owner or boss, there's a board. The board agrees on things before they're put into action. If the board doesn't want someone to continue being a part of the business they together decide such. Wonderful example would be the board of apple kicking out Steve Jobs. The problem here is the fact that the board wasn't consulted, and when they eventually were they all disagreed. In a business, as such, the decision would never have been made.

Are the Advisors a "Board of Directors"? In my experience, they weren't. Doldol and Kharn were/are the board and they promoted you and now, they're demoting you. The clan does not and should not get a vote in such matters because getting to Advisor is not, has not, and will never be a popularity contest.

For the past 2 years I've been a staff+ it was in fact a board. Important decisions were always discussed and voted upon. Promotions to staff+ were always discussed and voted on. Demotions, such as sibblet's were discussed and voted on. Every higher up in this community can vouch for that as well.

It never has been and never will be a popularity contest. It is a matter of how well the person handles their job. As far as the higher ups other than doldol are concerned I handle my job pretty well.

I could agree with that Mootinie, and I respect your opinion. However, as Wartheft said, this is not a business. This is a gaming community, made to run servers for people to enjoy. Mostly, for the members to enjoy. This means that anything and everything going on with how those servers run (aside from how we finance the servers) is every member's business, non-the-less those who were chosen to be a higher-up in the first place.

A democracy does in fact work in this case. The majority should have a say in what rules are put into place, what plugins are on what servers, how things are done, etc. because it very much involves them. Unlike a business, money isn't the only thing to be concerned about here: it's people's emotions, reactions, and enjoyment.

Of course having a democracy in a gaming community does have its flaws, just as any way of running things does, and you cannot please everyone. Kharn has said this, Doldol has said this, and everyone who has ever been a leader has said this. However, this isn't just a case of not everyone being pleased, this is a case of the majority of the community being displeased. I've received messages from past members and even regulars being displeased about this, so this is hardly the case anymore.

You speak of this like it's a business, and even if it were, that's not the way it should be run, because how people think and feel should matter to the employee, especially if the entire company disagrees with the CEO. The CEO should care as well if that's the case, otherwise everyone will just walk out the door, and it's hard for him to be a CEO if there's no employees that work for him. When you talk about firing someone, you and I both know they usually are because the person has no value to the company anymore, whatever the reason may be. This isn't the case, and I'm sure you and I both know that as well.

Regardless, I appreciate and respect your opinion. My opinion on the matter remains unchanged, however.

Edit: With the post you just made, we are not against this because of his "popularity." We're against this because the majority of us feel he is good at his position, and see no reason for him to be demoted. With what you're saying, you're going off of the idea that because someone is "promoted," anytime someone fires them, even with no reason, it's justified because of it. Doldol was made leader because of the fact that Kharn was stepping down due to things going on in his real life. So let me ask you this. Why is it that he is all of a sudden immune to making mistakes and correcting them when he makes them? Just because he is leader does not mean that he shouldn't think about the community anymore. In fact, it should mean he should start to care more, but that doesn't seem to be the case when he seems to be thinking about this all like a business just like you are.

It's for this reason and you're most recent post that I'm upping the stakes even more. The staff are obviously meeting over the matter, and over the past day I've been hearing people talk about how pissed they are, so now I'm going to ask a simple question that has the most relevancy, and I only hope you all have been asking:

Who is going to step up to the plate when the time comes for this to come down to its conclusion?

I ask this, because whether you realize it or not, even if Wartheft comes back and is reinstated as Advisor, which I doubt will happen, people are pissed at Doldol. Now, Wartheft and the staff+ are the ones who are extremely pissed off, rather than simply a select few members. So one way or another, somebody has to go. Personally, I wish neither did. Nobody does. However, with everything going on right now, it comes down to a simple choice: Doldol, or Wartheft.

Beep boop.

Well I apologize, obviously I stand corrected.

With regards EgN being ran like a business: with the money that is donated and the time that is sacrificed to keep this clan operational, I am not surprised that Doldol treats it like a business. I don't mean to offend anybody with this next statement but I'm sure some of you realize that you can do better things in your spare time than administrate this gaming community.

But that's besides the point, obviously Doldol and Wartheft need to talk and see if they can't fix their working relationship (for lack of a better phrase).

Non-profit gaming community

Js

Their paypal is tax exempt

Another point on this, this is a gaming COMMUNITY, meaning any time, money, effort, or other resource put into it is for the overall betterment of the community. The admins do their part, the staff+ do theirs, and Doldol does theirs. If someone is statistically contributing a large share of time/effort/etc. into the community, far beyond the expectations of a member of the community (with respect, in this context, to their rank), then this kind of action should not be taken so lightly as to remove someone of such a high rank, who contributes so much, suddenly and against the vote of the other staff+. If Wartheft and Doldol had their positions reversed, it would be a similar scenario. Doldol still (as far as I know) maintains and tweaks the code of the servers and site; if Wartheft, against the vote of the other higher-ups, demoted Doldol from Advisor to Supporter, because he didn't like that Doldol didn't 100% agree with him or he didn't like how he did things, or he complained about negative aspects of the clan, then (regardless of whether there would be) there should be an equal hue and cry over it. I admit that I do jack shit for this clan, and I'm not nearly as active as I was 2 years ago, so I appreciate and respect the time and effort the staff+ and the head admins and whoever else puts into the servers, as I hope everyone else does; I appreciate the people that quietly donate to the clan, whoever they may be; all this contributes to the community's well-being, and such dedication and loyalty, as Xander put it (rightfully so), should not be snuffed at.