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Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
http://elevatedgaming.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32052		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Central [ Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
mattlikespie wrote:
What is this game?

Game goes like:

"All Ts face main cell stairs at all times,
we're going to be playing primary, secondary or melee, guess which one I'm holding,
goes behind a T, for example, mattlikespie, and asks "primary, secondary or melee?" and he could have either out and you would have to choose what he has out,
if chooses wrong, you die."

This thread is asking if hints need to be given, hint in terms of shooting the gun, or describing the gun their holding.
Author:  Sunbro Solaire [ Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
mattlikespie wrote:
What is this game?



Primary, Secondary, Melee is a game which the Warden has Ts line up shoulder to shoulder and facing away from him, frozen. He then goes to each T, asking them "Primary, Secondary, Melee?" the T will then have to GUESS which weapon the Warden has out in his hands at that time. If they get it wrong, they die. They get it right, he goes on to the next. Usually the warden will allow for hints to be given, letting the game become trivially simple and easy to get, unless you are hard of hearing, bad at listening or generally a daft head.
Author:  mattlikespie [ Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
I’ve actually had to think hard on this one...there’s a lot of different routes to take.

Firstly, this is most definitely a luck based game. That being said; you add “hints” and that makes for a pointless game that wastes time. It’s singling out people who can’t understand the hints, or favoritism if one hint is stronger than another. No hints makes it 100% luck...that being said, there’s nothing in the rules that says you can’t play a luck based game. To outlaw it currently, you could argue it’s being an asshole, namely by frag whoring. I thought we had a clarification against frag whoring but I couldn’t find it. Yet even in that sense, there’s still a possibility no one dies, so it’s not necessarily frag whoring.

I don’t like this game. But rules right now say we can play it, even without hints. I’d recommend remembering this for the next admin meeting. Just because one person plays it slightly differently than every other warden does not mean he’s being an asshole. (Even if he really is?)
Author:  Cooper [ Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
There isn't really any rule against it as long as there isn't any favoritism. As long as all the T's have the same options, all have to participate, and all do/don't get hints it isn't considered favortism. Pretty much as long as they all have the same odds of winning (ex. 33%).

The argument that "this game kills a lot of people so it's stupid" is pretty weak as well especially if you look at the fact other games like Simon Says, Parkour, Whats In the Box, map games, etc., all can do the same thing. If your problem is the luck aspect of it then should we ban roulette and four corners as well? By this reasoning, it really also prevents the game from falling under the asshole rule since other allowed games have the tendency to ultimately do the same exact thing as PSM.

It can be frustrating to lose in games like this, but at the same time if everything was based purely on skill jailbreak would be relatively boring and have less variability. There is more to jailbreak than skill and personal ability and if you really want something to be completely based on skill there are other game modes like deathmatch and such that will fit that criteria much better.
Author:  Terminator [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
Cooper wrote:
There isn't really any rule against it as long as there isn't any favoritism. As long as all the T's have the same options, all have to participate, and all do/don't get hints it isn't considered favortism. Pretty much as long as they all have the same odds of winning (ex. 33%).

The argument that "this game kills a lot of people so it's stupid" is pretty weak as well especially if you look at the fact other games like Simon Says, Parkour, Whats In the Box, map games, etc., all can do the same thing. If your problem is the luck aspect of it then should we ban roulette and four corners as well? By this reasoning, it really also prevents the game from falling under the asshole rule since other allowed games have the tendency to ultimately do the same exact thing as PSM.

It can be frustrating to lose in games like this, but at the same time if everything was based purely on skill jailbreak would be relatively boring and have less variability. There is more to jailbreak than skill and personal ability and if you really want something to be completely based on skill there are other game modes like deathmatch and such that will fit that criteria much better.


i agree there isn't a specific rule against the game, but u can't seriously compate this game with simon says, parkour or what's in the box.simon says and parkour are skill based, u need to think fast,have fast reaction,good timing,anticipation, etc...
what's in the box gives u the ability to anticipate the category that is forbidden. if u go 1st u have a "big" chance of chosing the wrong thing and die. at the end u probably have a 90% chance of surviving depending on how many people went before u.

and how would u compare it with map games? most map games are based on skill: hot potato,colours,breakfloor,traitor,jumprope,wipeout,....

there are very few based on luck like four colours and roullette. and even with those u decide your faith yourself by playing more and more.
don't believe that? four corners is a game that is on alot of maps and when u go in first time u have a 25% chance of falling down, then depending on if warden let's u change corners u have a bigger chance everytime u change since it is very rare that the corner collapses 2 times in a row.

sure it's still 100% chance based, but the chances vary based on your descisions during the game (just like colours or breakfloor as u chose where to stand and risking not being able to make it on the right block in time)

roulletteworks the same. roullette pitt/game on lego jail has a big chance on landing on red. so depending on wether thewarden says "the colour it lands on dies/lives" u can chose your faith by taking the risk. u think it will land on red and take the bigger chance together with most T's? or wil u chose blue with a few T's and take the risk of not surviving the game?

sure it sucks to lose in a game like that because it kills 80% of the T's most of the time.
1 round can be "fun" playing this game, a second round might be ok aswell, but if u,as a warden in all rounds, do this game 3 or 4 rounds on 1 map it proves u are incapable of having variating rounds and games and shouldn't be warden.
it's the point of going to LR, but does it have to happen purely by luck? purely by you as warden getting kills just because they said u had a pistol out instea of your knife?

this is just my opinion here, but if u have nothing else to do exept for "say what im holding in my hand, if u are wrong u will die" then just go to T please

and reason i play jailbreak (to answer the "other gamemodes based on skill") is because it combines aspects of every gamemode in the game.
if u rebel u have a "deathmatch" gameplay with the CT's,if u follow orders u have a jailbreak gammode, if u play a game u have a "minigame" gamemode and so on....

that's why i play jailbreak, if i want somebody just killing people without anything else i'll go play zombie mod. that's more suited for that
Author:  Mr. Simplistic [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
Ooorrrrr we could bring back the ban of dont have any skill involved because thay are all terrible to the peiple who have to play them.
Author:  Yiggles Moto [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
Terminator wrote:
what's in the box gives u the ability to anticipate the category that is forbidden. if u go 1st u have a "big" chance of chosing the wrong thing and die. at the end u probably have a 90% chance of surviving depending on how many people went before u.


This is easily solvable by just not killing anyone until everyone gives their answer, which is how I play it. Let all the Ts answer, then kill the ones who did it wrong.
Author:  koolaid [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
Primary, secondary, melee starts at a 33% chance to live with the first T, and increases to 100% after 3 T's have been called on, even without hints.

If you just randomly guess, yeah, you only have 33% chance...but that's your fault for not paying attention.

Since the first T has a lower chance to survive than the other Ts, I would play a game prior that forces the first T to be first, avoiding possible claims of unfairness.

edit: In b4 yiggles says I have to explain probability to everyone otherwise what I just wrote is wrong :roll:
Author:  Yiggles Moto [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
koolaid wrote:
Primary, secondary, melee starts at a 33% chance to live with the first T, and increases to 100% after 3 T's have been called on, even without hints.

If you just randomly guess, yeah, you only have 33% chance...but that's your fault for not paying attention.

Since the first T has a lower chance to survive than the other Ts, I would play a game prior that forces the first T to be first, avoiding possible claims of unfairness.

edit: In b4 yiggles says I have to explain probability to everyone otherwise what I just wrote is wrong :roll:


No, you're wrong because somehow you know what is randomly chosen after 3 people ahead of you, with 100% accuracy? The warden switches between primary/secondary/melee. There's no way for the 4th T to play in this game is going to know what the Warden is holding. Also, don't bring your childish insults here... especially when you're still wrong.

Thanks.
Author:  koolaid [ Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Primary, Secondary, Melee - need to give hints? Seems so
Yiggles Moto wrote:
koolaid wrote:
Primary, secondary, melee starts at a 33% chance to live with the first T, and increases to 100% after 3 T's have been called on, even without hints.

If you just randomly guess, yeah, you only have 33% chance...but that's your fault for not paying attention.

Since the first T has a lower chance to survive than the other Ts, I would play a game prior that forces the first T to be first, avoiding possible claims of unfairness.

edit: In b4 yiggles says I have to explain probability to everyone otherwise what I just wrote is wrong :roll:


No, you're wrong because somehow you know what is randomly chosen after 3 people ahead of you, with 100% accuracy? The warden switches between primary/secondary/melee. There's no way for the 4th T to play in this game is going to know what the Warden is holding. Also, don't bring your childish insults here... especially when you're still wrong.

Thanks.


Yeah "somehow" :roll: Maybe pay attention to the Ts answers before you? Or to the ones who guessed wrong? Or listen to your headphones? The warden IS standing right behind you..
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